{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/4m9183589n/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Johnny Gutierrez"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Johnny Gutierrez. TU Treasures Oral History Collection. UA003-012. Coates Library Special Collections and Archives. Trinity University (San Antonio, Tex.).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["TU Treasures Oral History Collection"]}},{"label":{"en":["Participants"]},"value":{"en":["Johnny Gutierrez (Interviewee)","Lee Denney (Interviewer)","Seb Mora (Monitor)","archives@trinity.edu (Metadata contact)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2023-06-27 (captured)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Waco (Tex.) (spatial)","San Antonio (Tex.) (spatial)","1966-1970 (temporal)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["MP3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["UAOH003-012 (cms record id)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Conmemorando a la Comunidad: Latinx Experiences at Trinity University (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History","Sound Recording"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collections/default_thumbs/000/002/313/small/Confluence_graphic_%282%29.jpg?1704393526","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Gutierrez-Johnny-20230627_PIIedit.mp3"]},"duration":2742.96533,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collections/default_thumbs/000/002/313/small/Confluence_graphic_%282%29.jpg?1704393526","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-trinityuniversity.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/222/875/original/Gutierrez-Johnny-20230627_PIIedit.mp3?1704226541","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2742.96533,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview with Johnny Gutierrez [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DENNEY: Okay, today is June 27th, 2023. I am Lee Denney, a student at Trinity University, and today I'm interviewing Johnny Gutierrez. Gutierrez was a student at Trinity University from 1966 to 1970. I am also joined by Seb Mora, who will be monitoring the recording equipment. The interview today will mainly focus on Latino experiences at Trinity, as well as your post-grad life. This interview is being recorded for the Conmemorando a la Comunidad: Latinx Experiences at Trinity University and archived with the University Archives, part of Trinity University's Special Collections and Archives in Coates Library. \n\nOkay, so what was it like for you growing up? Walk me through some of your earliest childhood memories of family, friends, community. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Well, I got to give you a little background so that you can understand a little bit about my background. My mother and my father eloped. They were living in Waco, Texas. They eloped and went to California. San Francisco, California, where my father joined their merchant marines. They got married, and I was born in San Francisco. The marriage unfortunately didn't work out so my mother moved back to Waco, Texas to live with her adopted parents who eventually, they brought me up, I lived with them. She got remarried soon after the divorce and moved back to San Francisco. She had met her next husband in San Francisco while they were there. So I grew up with my grandparents Alejo  and Sofia Gutierrez, who were older. I lived with them, and they had a grocery store, combination bar that he built by hand, by himself with friends or whatever, next to our house. So I grew up telling everybody that I grew up in a bar. (laughter) They were wonderful. He was from Mexico, originally. She was born here in Texas, but they both were Spanish speakers. We're talking about my growing up days, right? \n\nWhen I got to elementary school, I still had a Spanish accent because all they spoke was Spanish. I got held back in the second grade. So I was in the second grade for two years. The teacher said it was because I couldn't speak or read fast enough in English. So I was kept in the second grade for a couple of years or another year. I guess it was around the sixth grade, I started walking home from school, whereas they used to leave me off school, drive me to school, then pick me up, but I started walking home after school. I would walk through the Baylor University campus. We lived very close to the campus. Now it's all Baylor University there. And I was always struck by a building. It turned out to be the Baylor theater, but they had a wooden tall wooden fence in the back. I would always peek through the cracks to see what was going on and I would see children playing or having fun or doing activities. One day, I guess it was one of the students,  as I recall from Trinity, I mean from Baylor, he came out and asked me if I would like to join the theater. So I said, of course. That was my experience because I don't know the questions you were going to ask me. Part of it was how I met Jearnine Wagner and Paul Baker. The theater was Mr. Baker's theater.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=0.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was the director and professor there. And Jearnine was just graduating at that point from college, or she had already graduated and was going to getting her masters. There was another lady named Ruth Byers, who was the director of [Baylor] Children's Theater. I was in Children's Theater in sixth grade and then Jearnine became the director of the [Baylor] Children's Theater. From that point on, I stayed in [Baylor] Children's Theater and was a member of children's theater, then teenage theater. Around the, I guess I was still like a junior in high school, he [Baker] put on a play by Eugene O'Neill called Long Day’s Journey into Night. And it was about an addicted, morphine-addicted grandmother and her alcoholic grandson. And in Waco, Texas, that’s pretty scandalous. And so they asked him, the dean or the president of Baylor, asked him to stop it, stop the play. And he said, “If I have to stop the play, then I'm going to resign.” And he goes, “Well, you can't put on that play.” And so he resigned, and so did all of his department teachers, and they all collectively moved to San Antonio to Trinity University.\n\nDENNEY: Wow\n\nGUTIERREZ: And started the drama department here. He had gone to Trinity University before, when it was in Waxahachie. So that was his background with Trinity. So he had been a student at Trinity University when it was in Waxahachie. And so to make a long story short, children's theater, teenage theater, and by the time I graduated from high school, they had already been here a couple years. And so it was just a natural. I wanted to follow the department and follow Mr. Baker and Jearnine. And I didn't have the grades. So to be accepted, what is it? G. G.––\n\nDENNEY: GPA?\n\nGUTIERREZ: Yeah. And so Jearnine said, go talk to Mr. Baker. So I came over to San Antonio and talked to Mr. Baker. And as soon as I told him the situation, he just picked up the phone, talked to admissions, and boom, I was in. I was given a scholarship. That first semester, my grandparents, again, you know, I was brought up by them. They had to pay for the room and board. Because at that time, they only could do my tuition. So that was how I started Trinity University. And I went on––\n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: Tell them how your grandmother paid for it.  \n\nGUTIERREZ: Oh, yeah. So that is interesting. Okay. So I said, I need $500. Because we were, you know, lower income and all that. And I didn't know how it was going to happen. She goes, “Come with me.” And we went outside and she goes, “Bring the shovel.” And I said, “Okay.” I grab the shovel. And she says, “Dig there.” And so I started digging and digging, but a foot or something like that. And eventually there was this gallon pickle jar full of coins, and dollars, and bills, and things like that. And it was $500. \n\nDENNEY: Oh wow.\n\nGUTIERREZ: (laughter) So that's what I used to start the first semester at Trinity. And it was like January through May. So and then after that, I was full on–– I lived on campus. It was mandatory for students from out-of-town that your first two years of Trinity, I don't know if it's that way anymore, but your first two years of Trinity, you had to live on campus. So I lived in the dormitories for the first two years. And soon afterwards, got an apartment, and was in [the] [Trinity] Children's Theater [ed.note Ideas in Motion], helping Mr. Baker's children's theater and Jearnine Wagner. \n\nAnd a few years after that, a couple of years, I forget the time because you're talking 50 years ago, she [Jearnine Wagner] developed Learning About Learning. She incorporated and a lot of us that worked for her and as an instructor,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=300.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"teachers, were all in children's theater and then teenage theater. I mean, it was kind of like a whole family together. All of us from different backgrounds and all of that. So I had to get acclimated to a different culture because I come from a Hispanic culture and again, you know, my grandparents were just Spanish speakers, very little English, and broken English. And it was a challenge for me, but I had a lot of help, and a lot of support from fellow students and counselors, the older people that had been in children's theater before. And so that brings me up to going to Trinity. \n\nDuring this time, still with the children's theater and Learning About Learning, she had outreach activities going on all over the city in Kenwood, the community of Kenwood. In the West Side of San Antonio, the large Hispanic community over there, and also the East Side of San Antonio, where it was more of a Black community. And she would work with schools and those areas and develop rapport with some of the principals. And so some of us from Trinity would go out to those places and sometimes we'd bring some of them into Trinity to be part of––and close to Trinity and then Learning About Learning, which eventually got on its own. And all of us had grown up at that time. We were teachers and working with her. We would get grants. I eventually got my own grant. And it was called the Student to Student Program, but it's basically––because of my work in Kenwood. And that's when I developed, I guess you could call it a dramatic troop, which consists of some of the kids that I had developed over the years. And we would develop skits about their everyday life and also issues about the pressures on them. And a lot of communication-based type, how you communicate with other cultures, how a Black is perceived by a Hispanic, how a Hispanic is perceived by an Anglo and so forth. And the whole integrated basis of it. And so some of them were very talented and we really developed a solid review. I would call it a review, not a play, because it was a series of skits put together on different topics regarding communication. We had some singers and a lot of them could dance. And so I needed, I was always a musician initially I still have my drum set because I was in a band in high school and all of that. So I brought it with me to Trinity. And initially, I would just back up some of their dance routines with my drums. But I had to stop because I was directing primarily. And they were getting pretty heavy-duty serious. And so I started hiring musicians to back it up. And believe it or not, one of them happened to be Christopher Cross. His name was Chris Geppert. When he went professional, this was after the Kenwood Players, he changed it to Christopher Cross. But he and the group of musicians, would start off the review with a couple of their songs. And he would play all of his big, top ten songs that he became famous for. And then he would back up some of the songs that we developed in the Kenwood Players review. And so it was like, I would  say thirty-five, forty minutes. But eventually, I incorporated the Kenwood Players. And we toured the Southwest at different school districts. I let it–– put out the word. And we charged the fee. And that kind of helped us along and all of that. But everybody grew up. (laughter) And went their own ways. And about that time, I moved to––some opportunities that were present in Austin, Texas, one with the Southwest Educational Laboratory, it was called. And they were developing a series","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=600.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of ten, half-hour bilingual shows on children. So I managed to get the directorship position for that. That's about a year-and-a-half. And after that, another one came about through the University of Texas, which was longer, it was thirty-nine, half-hour series television reviews called Son Raices. And they were put on through PBS [Public Broadcasting Service]. And so very fortunate to have that experience. And after it was over, I thought, about that time, when I met her [referring to Sandy Gutierrez], we were married. And I decided that I would try to seek more opportunities like that one, like those. And there was nothing going on in Texas. So we moved to California, I figured, Hey, over there, there's a lot more film and TV production going on. So we moved to California. And we had a child, and she had already had a six-year-old, and so I was seeking opportunities, and they were hard to come by. So I had to find something to do and get a job. I was substitute teaching pretty much during the week. \n\nAnd then I found this job with Compton’s Encyclopedia. And it was selling Compton’s Encyclopedia for school age, for elementary school age, through junior high age kids. And discovered that I had a pretty good talent for sales. And I said, Hey, you know, why not try to do this full time? So I became a full-time salesperson for Compton's. And then that led to other opportunities. First of all with copier company with Minolta Corporation. And I stayed about nine years with them and became a manager. I was the sales manager and the sales representative. And that led to other opportunities. They were starting branches across the country at the time. The copier division was. So they moved me from Los Angeles to Virginia because they wanted me to handle the greater D.C. area, Northern Virginia, Southern Maryland territories. And so I was with them about nine years, something like that. \n\nAnd there was another industry called the legal publishing industry. And I went from Minolta to a company called Matthew Bender for one year. And then this was a legal publisher that interpreted the laws. And so attorneys needed their materials to interpret the laws, whether they were state, regional or national. And I was the sales rep for them and the manager. And that led to another opportunity with West Publishing who is now Thomson Corporation. But West Publishing was the reporter service for the law. So they were the publishers of all laws, again state, regional and national. And was with them for about nine or ten years. And then after that we went on to, I guess it was LexisNexis. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: Yeah, but we moved. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Oh yeah. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: We were alone. \n\nGUTIERREZ: I'm sorry, this is my wife in the background.\n\nMRS.GUTIERREZ: We were alone in Virginia; our family had left. So, we went to San Antonio. \n\nGUTIERREZ: So, we decided to move back. And when we relocated from Virginia back to San Antonio, and about that time there was another opportunity with a legal publisher called LexisNexis. And they moved us to Portland, Oregon. There was a position open for a manager there. And so I was with West for ten years. And then for LexisNexis almost another ten years. \n\nAnd so that, you know, did I tell them about the, yes, Son Raices and all of that. And so about three years ago, I retired from LexisNexis. And basically ended up being in sales,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=900.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"being in sales, professional outside sales for about 30 years. And so I guess that's, did I miss anything or do you have any other questions? \n\nDENNEY:  Yes. Could you tell me a little bit more about your relationship with Paul Baker? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Sure. Let's see, what can I tell you? (coughing in background) He had a philosophy. It wasn't just this is how to be an actor. This is how to be a writer. This is how to, you know, this is how to do theater. He had a course that he had developed called Integration of Abilities. It still may be around, I don't know, but it became a course at Baylor. And then when he moved to Trinity, it became a course at Trinity. And the Integration of Abilities was the philosophy of the children's theater. And so I became very involved with that. And one of their outreach programs was with Kenwood, the community here. And so that's why I started the Kenwood Players. And I also had a little review with three kids from the West Side. And they were Andy, Joe, and Philip. Boy, I used to chase them all over the campus because they were kind of wild. And I did, actually, I really did. I'd go from building the building, try to find them. And they would hide on me and everything. And they were––they spoke more Spanish than they did English. (coughing in background) But I worked with them for a long time. Let's see. \n\nMRS.GUTIERREZ: Andy started working for Learning About Learning. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Started what? \n\nMRS.GUTIERREZ: Andy worked for Learning About Learning. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Yes. Now, I don't know how much I told you already about Learning About Learning. But it was a offspring of Paul Baker’s Integration of Abilities. But it was basically a program that provided teachers with techniques of how to get children to integrate their abilities. And so it was called Learning About Learning. And I worked for them as well as a teacher at that point. \n\nSee, what did I miss? I think I said I almost the whole thing. \n\nDENNEY:  You're good. I was wondering if once you became settled into your routine, what did a typical day as a student of Trinity look like for you? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  You mean here on campus and everything? \n\nDENNEY:  Mm-hmm.\n\nGUTIERREZ:  Well, the theater was very, that was like my outside curriculum, that was my outside thing. Because going to Trinity was like going to school, except that I lived on campus for the first two years. And my major was drama. But I also, after school or after classes, I would be in children's theaters a teacher and instructor. \n\nDENNEY:  Thank you. Do you remember having any Latino professors or instructors? \n\nGUTIERREZ: I didn’t.\n\nDENNEY: How did you feel about that at the time? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Well, I thought that's the way it was. (laughter) I didn't know, like right now, my wife's a professor. \n\nDENNEY: Mm-hmm\n\nGUTIERREZ: And I didn't know there was even a calling or anything like that. I really made a cultural change, or a cultural confrontation, which I adopted. I entered. I wouldn't say I became, but I entered into the culture, the Anglo culture and learned about values. And through Learning About Learning and all of that Integration of the Abilities was the basis of it. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ:  One of the things he shared with me was in speech, he changed the manner––the way he spoke, the way he walked, he changed the way he dressed. He sort of reinvented himself. And Jearnine was part of that. She was the one that would take him to eat at fancy restaurants and really teach him the––\n\nGUTIERREZ:  Different behaviors. We used to call it behave “this” and behave “that.” But she taught me how to behave going to a restaurant. (laughter) \n\nDENNEY:  Yeah\n\nGUTIERREZ: You've got to remember that when I came home up to high school, I basically came home and my house was here and the bar was there. And so I helped my grandmother, my grandfather died when I was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=1200.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"my grandfather died when I was 16. So eventually, I essentially, I became the man of the house. And we had a gun. He had left a gun. And because the bar would get rowdy sometimes, it was necessary for self-defense to have always the gun handy. And it got kind of rowdy sometimes. But it was like, this is the house and this is the bar. And that's where I grew up. And so you could imagine the kind of culture shock that I went into when I came to Trinity or the difference. But again, if it hadn't been for Learning About Learning or Mr. Baker's philosophy, I probably wouldn't have categorized everything in life and growing up without that. So I looked at it, the differences in word, such as “behavior,” or they had something called the Elements of Form, which is rhythm, texture, color, space, rhythm. And so I interpreted everything in terms of that. What kind of rhythm does that person have? What kind of rhythm is the teacher presenting and how is that affecting the rhythm of the kids or like that? \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: One of the things––growing up in high school, he was on the football team. Well, he was in the football team in middle school. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Yeah.\n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: You were in the band. \n\nGUTIERREZ: I was in the band. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: Plus, he had his own band outside. He was very involved and his grandparents permitted him to do everything. And these were adopted grandparents, they weren’t his real grandparents. You can tell them a little bit about that. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Interesting because they were from humble beginnings. My grandfather was from State of Jalisco. And so during my growing up, he would take me to visit them in Jalisco and Guanajuato. And I got to know them and where my culture came from and all of that. And very much, very much into––my grandmother, I guess, was one of those Hispanics that was here from, since the beginning. There were some Hispanics here from the Gonzales County in that area. Grew up on a ranch and all of that. So I learned a lot from them. And they were really great teachers totally supportive of everything that I did. And again, he passed when I was sixteen and she when I was twenty. So I was pretty much on my own after that. But I had Trinity, and Jearnine, and Mr. Baker. \n\nLater on, as I grew up or whatever, and got married and all that, I found out that Jearnine had passed away. And it just made me feel real bad because she was like a part of the family. She was like a relative to me. And so I decided that I would have to go thank somebody for my good fortune, because I did really well in sales. And it became my career. And you know, I was able to buy homes, and send my kids to college, and all of that. And it was because of what my experience was there. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: In 1997, we went to visit Paul Baker. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Yes, that's what I was going to say. I had to thank somebody. So Jearnine had passed at that point. So we knew that he lived in Waelder, Texas or that area. And we went to go visit him. And my son, who is now in his forties, was like twelve years old.  \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: No, no, he was already in his first year of college. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Oh, okay. Well, what I remember is he was young. (laughter) Yeah, and I'm old right now. \n\nSo, but yeah, we went to visit him and thanked him for his influence and support of me and all of that. I remember, I don't know if I told you this already, but I didn't make the qualification. My GED wasn’t sufficient to make it to Trinity. And he just picked up the phone and said, “Get this boy in here, get this boy in the dormitories” and all of that. He had kind of like a Texas accent. Anyway, Mr. Baker was a renowned professor, a drama","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=1500.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"professor, all over the country. At that time, movie stars like Burgess Meredith, Charlton Heston would come to visit him at the theater, and I would see them. Yeah, so it was pretty cool. \n\nDENNEY:  Thank you. What was your general sense of belonging on campus, or at Trinity? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Well, it was a challenge because I knew that it was an exclusive college that it was where a lot of the students were from wealthy families. And even though I had a few Hispanic connections, they were from wealthy families. And that I remember, I was the only one that had my kind of background, lower income and all of that. Everybody else had, you know, could afford going to Trinity. And so it was a cultural change. But again, it was the influence in drama that I was able to, instead of looking at it as he's that way or he's that way, his rhythm is that way or the texture of his personality is this way or whatever. So that helped me in an extreme amount. \n\nDENNEY:  Thank you. Were there a lot of fellow Latino students when you were attending Trinity? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Not that many. Not that many. I remember the Navarro's and that was basically it.  That’s all that I can--there was Luis Gurwitz who was my-- Luis Gurwitz. (laughter) He was from Mexico. And I guess they put me with him because he was a Spanish speaker on campus. But we had totally different backgrounds. He was wealthy. (laughter) And I wasn't. \n\nDENNEY: Did you notice any change in your feelings or understanding regarding Trinity from the point when you started education to when you finished? \n\nGUTIERREZ: Well, absolutely. It's just, you know, it's when I was growing up. So just my maturity was guided by all my influences. And at that time, I was really into everything that, that with the children’s theatre and all of that. \n\nMORA: [Referring to Denney] Can you ask this one, the student org question? I know that we touched a little bit on student orgs, but just in case that there's something like this.\n\nDENNEY: [Referring to Mora] Did you participate? [Referring to Gutierrez] Did you participate in any student organizations? And if so, which ones? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Student organizations other than children’s theatre, you know. I didn't join––it was a big cultural difference. I didn't join the Thetas [reference to Greek life] if that's what you're talking about. (laughter) Are they still around? \n\nMORA: Uh, there are some fraternities. \n\nGUTIERREZ: They were the wild guys. They were like the “Animal House” kind of a college kids. (laughter) No, I didn’t, other than children’s theatre, which was all-encompassing, believe me. I mean, it required going to the Westside, going to the East side, going to Kenwood. That was my extracurricular activities. \n\nDENNEY:  Thank you. Looking back on your time there, what was it like for you to be a student at Trinity in the late 1960s? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Well, there was a lot of change going on. You know, that was all the protests were going on in, Vietnam War. Martin Luther King [Jr.] was assassinated. It was during the hot times, and all of America was changing and I was experiencing all that too. A little bit of rebellion, you know, the hippie movement, and I was from San Francisco, even though I grew up in Texas, like I said, my mother got remarried and raised a family in San Francisco. So I would go to San Francisco from Trinity. And of course, it was all the hippies, and it was all the Volkswagen vans that people lived in, and all the beads and long hair and you know, all of that influence, they used to go to the Winterland [Ballroom] and see Jimmy Hendrix––\n\nDENNEY: Yeah?  Oh my gosh.\n\nGUTIERREZ: ––and Janis Joplin in person. All of those guys, the Grateful Dead.\n\nMORA: Wow\n\nGUTIERREZ:––It was very good in San Francisco. I saw all of them, you know, the Fillmore West over there. \n\nDENNEY:  That's really cool. \n\nWhat do you think, or what do you think are some of the differences between the experience of a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=1800.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Latino student at Trinity and a Anglo non-Latino student, if any? \n\nGUTIERREZ: One more time? \n\nDENNEY: What do you think are some of the differences between the experience of a Latino student at Trinity and a non-Latino Anglo student at Trinity? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Well, again, the experience is pretty cultural. It's that-- I always knew I was different. So, however, you can interpret that, y’know. I would say--I would look at it more as I integrated into the culture. I didn't become like, I didn't shun my Hispanic roots or my Hispanic culture. I was still part of it. I still went to the the bailes, the dances, Mexican dances, and Sunny and the Sunliners and Little Joe and the Latinaires. Some of those guys are still performing. But back then I was still part of that culture and I was also part of the middle-class Anglo culture which comprised my experience at Trinity. \n\nDENNEY:  Thank you. Would you consider Trinity an institution that supports its Latino students, when you were attending? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Very much so. I really do. Starting from just Mr. Baker picking up the phone and getting me enrolled that quickly. Like, Get this guy in right away, and everybody––I don't know what it was about the philosophy of Trinity, but it was all accepting and all nourishing. Very, very liberal, very cool. Very enriching experience. \n\nDENNEY:  So, how did the Kenwood Players come about? I know you've talked about it a little bit. \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Well initially it was just like teachers going in the community and providing and involving the kids in skits, arts, providing them with materials and all of that. But I took it a step further because I saw something. I saw a real performance and I saw like a living theater that I produced, that was my group, and the kids were growing up at this time, and so we took a stab at it and went on a tour and performed at all sorts of schools around San Antonio, and really got into it. \n\nDENNEY: What was touring like? \n\nGUTIERREZ: Touring?\n\nDENNEY: Yeah. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Wild and crazy. (laughter) Because we would have to rent Winnebago and we all stayed there. But I remember we had—there was a girl at Trinity and her father went with us. So he was the only adult. He was like a grandfather age, something like that. But he would drive the Winnebago and make sure that we stayed pretty straight and behaved and all of that. So, it was pretty cool. \n\nDENNEY: What made you decide to continue your involvement in the Kenwood Players post-graduation? \n\nGUTIERREZ: The fact that I saw some real potential in performing and it was my stab at using my major in college, drama, to make a statement. And we were very good. I mean we would have standing ovations all over the place. And then just running into guys like the quality of Christopher Cross, you know, Chris Geppert, was amazing. You know, put that in play and he would just like jam out and I mean a couple of years after it was all over, all of a sudden, he was a big star across the country. So it was a very exciting time and experience. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: They also did things around San Antonio. They would go to Austin and it was during the whole “behavior modification” where you would learn by acting it out in a role playing trying to modify behavior and especially since racial and interracial situations were going on at that time with integration and everything. So—\n\nGUTIERREZ: We were trying to be a model because we'd actually","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=2100.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"go for a period of time like to a specific school and develop a troop there. So when we left they had their own little troop just like us. So first we were just put together, and once we had a review then we tried to provide the same experience for other students and had them form a group, and they had their own name. I remember one group's name in Austin was Trilogy. You know, they would choose their own name. And we try to do the same thing everywhere we went and just develop a troop of students that would continue meeting on their own outside, and developing skits and having their own reviews. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: He also went to Nebraska. I remember you went to—\n\nGUTIERREZ: Lincoln, Nebraska \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: ––and trained the, not only teachers, but the administrators and principals and them aware of that. This was after we were married. \n\nHe was–– he still had that connection. And we went to, we saw, in between leaving and Jearnine passing. We had seen her a couple of times we were in California and she invited us. They were doing something with HISD [Houston Independent School District] and they asked Johnny to be one of the leaders. John was only about five or six years old and we flew in. They flew us in and we all participated but he was one of the group leaders. And then for my parents' anniversary she came and visited us and—well she was in Houston. So she came to the my parents' anniversary, the fiftieth anniversary. But yeah, do you remember that time? We went and it was I don't remember what organization but it was HISD that and you helped, she put on a workshop. \n\nGUTIERREZ:  No, it’s so long ago, we were talking fifty years ago. But it was a very exciting period of time and positive activities, positive involvements with everybody like she was saying, administrator, teachers, and students. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: I think it really influenced his work. I said, “No wonder you’re a good salesman, you’re an actor you get out there and you perform.”  And it made a difference. It really made a difference and he could–– he really knew how to work with people. He was very open. I’d always tease him, I’d say, “Women always have to touch you.” You know, the women had to touch him and, but he had that charisma and it really carried over into sales. He also did––trained all his people because he was a manager. He trained them and that all came from Learning About Learning. He was having his salesman do skits also, you know, practice selling and, “Okay, this guy is objecting to the sale, how are you going to convince him to buy it?” So it all carried over. I would see it. \n\nGUTIERREZ:  Yeah. \n\nDENNEY: So what led you to move on from the Kenwood Players? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  I got married. (laughter) Funding, you know, we––the kids grew up, you know, because I mean we're talking about when I started them, they were in elementary school and they finished high school. And so it was time to grow up and I grew up and that's when I, you know, got into television, film production and all of that, and I moved on. \n\nDENNEY: What advice would you give to current Latino students at Trinity? \n\nGUTIERREZ: What advice would I give? Just to be open about who they are and accepting of communicating with others to learn, you know, about others, and what the differences are, and it's okay. They just do things in a different way. \n\nDENNEY:  Thank you. Is there anything else you would like to add that we didn't cover today? \n\nGUTIERREZ:  In terms of experiences, well, I mean, I never knew from the experience I had at Trinity that I would end up in sales, or be good at it, or be make a career of it, but I did. And I look back on all of it and how it all pointed in that direction even though I never had sales training, it was all the same.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=2400.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Learning is the same. Regardless of what profession you're in. And so I just happened to go into the sales profession. It came easy for me, even though it was hard work. The knack for it came easy for me, and it was all because of, I had discovered all these things through my experience here at Trinity and Integration of Abilities and Learning About Learning. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: His brother was in it. He got his brother in it. His sister. \n\nGUTIERREZ:  My mother. \n\nMRS. GUTIERREZ: His mother. His sister was a rebel, she didn't last long, but Eddie toured with him. We were just at his birthday and he brought it out. When he got up and spoke or when they got up and spoke that he and his brother had toured the Southwest and done all these things. And again, it was all Learning About Learning. He put everybody in.\n\nDENNEY:  Okay. [Referring to Mora] Do you have any questions? \n\nMr. Gutierrez, thank you so much for your time to do this interview. This is the end of the recording. \n\nGUTIERREZ: Thank you.\n\n[END OF INTERVIEW]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=2700.0,2773.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875/transcript/72018/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/97463/file/222875#t=2773.0,2742.96533"}]}]}]}