{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/4t6f18t131/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Peggy Kokernot Kaplan"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Peggy Kokernot Kaplan. Trinity University Women's Intercollegiate Athletics Oral History Project. UA-OH001-02. Coates Library Special Collections \u0026amp; Archives, Trinity University (San Antonio, Texas).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThis interview is open for research. Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Trinity University Special Collections and Archives.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Participants"]},"value":{"en":["Peggy Kokernot Kaplan (Interviewee)","Douglas Brackenridge (Interviewer)","Betsy Gerhardt Pasley (Interviewer)","Shirley Rushing Poteet (Interviewer)","Sharp Copy Transcription (Transcriber)","Index - Trinity University History of Sport (SPMT 3314) class (Writer of accompanying material)","archives@trinity.edu (Metadata contact)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2018-01-22 (Created)","January 22, 2018 (Created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["OH001-02 (cms record id)","UA-OH001 (collection call number)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Women's Athletics Oral History Project (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThis interview is open for research. Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Trinity University Special Collections and Archives.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/139/small/data?1625685081","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Interview with Peggy Kokernot Kaplan - Trinity University Women's Athletics Oral History Project"]},"duration":3203.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/139/small/data?1625685081","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3sWOVJfNwQ","type":"Video","format":"video/youtube","duration":3203.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Peggy_Kokernot_Kaplan.xml [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: This is January--where are we? The 20-\n\nKAPLAN: The 22nd. BRACKENRIDGE: The 22nd, 2018. And I'm Douglas Brackenridge, a\nretired professor at Trinity University. And with me is Shirley Rushing Poteet,\nwho was in the Department of Physical Education from, what, 1960 to--?POTEET: To\n1995. BRACKENRIDGE: To 1995. And we're interviewing Peggy Kokernot Kaplan--\n\nKAPLAN: That's right.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: --who was a student at Trinity from what years?KAPLAN: 1971 to 1975.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay, 1971 to 1975. And the focus of the interview will be on\nwomen's intercollegiate athletics and specifically with the formation of\nTrinity's track team. So let me start with just a bit of background. Would you\ntell us, how did you get to Trinity? How did you come to Trinity? And did\nathletics influence that decision or was that something that came later? But,\nhere she is. Here's--can you see Betsy?\n\nKAPLAN: Hi there, Betsy!\n\nPOTEET: Here's Betsy.\n\nPASLEY: Hey, Peggy, how are you?\n\nKAPLAN: I'm wonderful. Oh, look at you, wearing your march shirt.\n\nPASLEY: I did this just for you. Because we were both--\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, thank you.\n\nPASLEY: I didn't see you there. Where were you?\n\nKAPLAN: Well, in that march, I was with a million other women out there. And I\nguess we never saw each other in D.C. I was pretty much locked into cement. We\nwere there with millions of women in 2007--uh, 2017 after the election.\n\nPASLEY: Right.\n\nKAPLAN: And phones weren't working.\n\nPASLEY: I know. Yeah, I was going to try to ping you. And yeah, so we--I don't\neven know where we ended up, Peggy, but we just--you know, you kind of stood\naround and then you started moving. But yeah, that was an incredible day. We\nwere both in D.C. at the same time.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I was going to let you, Betsy, take the lead on this. Is that okay?\n\nPASLEY: Oh, okay!\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: If not, I'll do it. But we just started with the first question\nasking her about how she got to Trinity, and did athletics influence her\ndecision to come. Because Betsy was more involved in this than I was. But we'll\nall--Shirley and I will feel free, and you feel free, to depart from--it's\nloose. It's a conversation.\n\nPASLEY: So I missed how Peggy came to Trinity.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: No, we haven't got there.\n\nPASLEY: Oh, good. Okay.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We just--start with that, and then was athletics some reason for\ncoming, or other reasons.\n\nKAPLAN: Absolutely not, no. You know, I was the kind of student that I wanted a\nsmaller classroom. The idea of going to a big school like University of Texas\nwith hundreds of people in a classroom was not appealing to me. I wanted to be\nable to establish relationships with professors, and I needed a smaller campus\nsize. So I was thrilled to be accepted to Trinity. And I do have to apologize\nfor the dog. (barks)\n\nPASLEY: (laughs)\n\nKAPLAN: Everybody, quiet.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: (laughs)\n\nKAPLAN: And so I (barks)--Claire (SP), Joey (SP)--I did not participate in\nathletics in high school. I think they had a swimming team and they may have had\na tennis team, but I did not want to do either of those. There might have even\nbeen volleyball. And so there were no sports for me in high school at all.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Where were you, in Texas, or--?\n\nKAPLAN: I was in Houston at a school called Memorial High School.\n\nPOTEET: Okay.\n\nPASLEY: Oh, I'd forgotten that.\n\nKAPLAN: Moved there my sophomore year. It was kind of a difficult time. Parents\ngot divorced. I got very involved in theater in high school. Outside of high\nschool, primarily, because you couldn't participate when you first started in.\nYou had to take lots of prerequisites before you could go into theater. So\nreally that was my interest was theater, and I feel like I've always been a\nperformer. Loved musical theater. And I knew Trinity had a wonderful theater\ndepartment with Paul Baker. Excuse me, just a second.\n\nPASLEY: (laugh) I saw the dog in the mirror. That was pretty funny. Oh, look.\n\nKAPLAN: This is Joey (SP).\n\nPASLEY: Hey, Joey!\n\nKAPLAN: This is Kibba (SP) Kowalski (SP).\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: Joey. I have a number of rescue dogs, and he's unadoptable. So\nanyway--but he wanted to come up. So I came to Trinity strictly for the theater.\nBut it was my sophomore year when I started dating a Trinity tennis player,\nJohn ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=0.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Berman (SP). And I realized that Trinity and tennis, that was a\nhuge deal there. And I loved going to the matches. I had never really\nparticipated, watched sports, anything. And I found myself always on the edge of\nmy seat, just watching these tournaments. So I asked my boyfriend if maybe he\ncould teach me how to play tennis. And that was absolutely disastrous.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: Because I would try and hit a ball and he'd give (SP) every ball back.\nAnd I thought, \"This is not for me.\"\n\nPASLEY: (laughs)\n\nKAPLAN: \"I don't want this.\" So I quit. And I think we might have tried it one\ntime. But I did enjoy watching. I loved the competition. It was something I had\nnever experienced observing. I never had watched real football. I hadn't been\nthat interested in male-dominated sports. And I didn't watch Trinity women's\ntennis, but I really--I think it's just because I was a young co-ed and in love\nwith this tennis player and so I got to watch them actually win the national\ntitle. And it came down to a match with Pancho Walthall and John Berman--\n\nPERSON: That's right. (laughs)\n\nKAPLAN: --and it was very, very exciting. About this time, my mother was going\nthrough a divorce in Houston, and a friend had suggested that they--that she\nstart jogging. So she would write me or call me and tell me she was out there\nrunning. And I thought, \"Well, that sounds like a great thing to do.\" And so I\nremember just standing in my dorm room, in the North dorm room, looking down at\nthat track and thinking, \"Maybe I'll go down there and try this out.\" And so my\nmother would tell me how far she was running, and so I'd increase my distance.\nShe'd go a little further, and I'd go a little further. And I think that's\nprobably when you might have heard or you might have seen me, Shirley, showing\nyou this interest that I had in running. I don't know if I should extend on in\nthis conversation to the conversation you and I had, or if I should stop.\n\nPOTEET: That's fine, that's fine.\n\nKAPLAN: Well, I just remember I was running a lot. And sometimes when the\nfootball team was playing, Coach Davis was out there on the football\n(INAUDIBLE). And I remember you said to me one day, \"You seem to really like\nrunning.\" And I think I might have been running with that noon--some of the\nprofessors, you included. And you said to me, \"You know, Peggy, why don't you\nstart a track team?\" (INAUDIBLE) a track team.\n\nPASLEY: (laugh) Really! Cool!\n\nKAPLAN: That had never really entered my mind. And you said, \"Yes, Title IX has\npassed, and there could be equal funding for women's sports. Why don't you see\nif you can do this?\" And I thought, \"Well, that's a great idea.\" And I knew I\nwasn't any good at tennis, but I thought, well, maybe I would excel in running.\nAnd so that kind of--you--because of you, that really got the ball rolling. That\nreally got the ball rolling.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Was Shirley the one that said to you, \"You need to go to the\nAthletic Council and get--put a--\"?\n\nKAPLAN: Yes, she told me the process of what I needed to do. Because I wouldn't\nhave had a clue. And while I don't remember how long that took before they\napproved it, obviously we were approved to be able to run in 1975 in the spring.\nAnd in reviewing some of the articles that I sent you, I noticed that the coach\nwas going to hold three spots on the team for us or something like that, on the\nmen's team. But apparently we had our own team because--because obviously there\nwere more than three of us that were on that team.\n\nAnd he did not take us seriously. I really think he kind of thought of this as a\njoke. He was coaching the football team while (INAUDIBLE). And he's a very nice\nman; don't get me wrong. But he would hand us, or even just say to us what he\nwanted us to do, and I don't ever recall thinking that he took us seriously. At\nthat time there was a guy on the men's track, Darryl White (SP), who actually\ntook us over to run on the hills that were kind of behind the theater, as I\nrecall. There's some--as you come down--Stadium Drive, I think it is. And so we\nwould go and do repeats over there. And he gave us encouragement.\n\nAnd Betsy, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=300.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm not sure how you remember this, but it seemed like he\nstarted to--Coach Davis would have to take us to some of these meets surrounding\nthe area, and I think he kind of enjoyed us. Enjoyed watching us compete. And\nthen we really started doing, I think, better than the male team.\n\nPASLEY: By the way, first of all, was '75 your senior year?\n\nKAPLAN: Yes.\n\nPASLEY: That's what I was remembering. But we also had Sue Davis (SP) that year,\nI think.\n\nKAPLAN: Yes, we did.\n\nPASLEY: And that helped a lot. (laughs)\n\nKAPLAN: She was very fast.\n\nPASLEY: Sue Davis.\n\nPOTEET: Sue Davis.\n\nPASLEY: She was the one who came--she was there just one year and then\ntransferred to UT (University of Texas) and was an exceptional athlete at UT.\n\nKAPLAN: I did not know that.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah. She did great, I think in the long jump, and some field events.\nAnd maybe hurdles. But anyway, yeah, she went to UT and did great. But we\nreally--it was a special moment, Peggy, because you were a great distance\nrunner, Sue was an exceptional runner. More sprinting-\n\nKAPLAN: You were, too!\n\nPASLEY: --and I was decent. And by the way, I just have to laugh, because--\n\nKAPLAN: You were short and fast.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nPASLEY: Well, there you go! I didn't have long legs. But the story you just told\nis exactly the story I told these guys a few weeks ago. I was on the balcony of\nSouth dorm looking down at the track and just--\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, maybe I was on South dorm.\n\nPASLEY: I think you were on South. Because North is on the other side.\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, okay. Okay.\n\nPASLEY: No, that's okay. But I had the exact same experience, where I just\nthought--because my brothers were track runners--I thought, \"I wonder what it\nwould be like to run.\" Because I never really ran. And I went down that night\nand ran like, I don't know, four miles. And then I had shin splints the next\nday. (laughs)\n\nKAPLAN: Of course, of course.\n\nPASLEY: But Peggy, if you and I had not lived in South and had that balcony, I\ndon't know. It's kind of fun. It's a fun connection.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah, I don't know. That may be true. I do think my mother was a big\ninspiration for me--\n\nPASLEY: That's neat.\n\nKAPLAN: --just because here was this 50-year-old woman who--or I'm not sure how\nold she was--yeah, she was about 50--and she was out there running. And I\nthought, \"Well, interesting.\" But I do recall thinking, \"I'll run around\nbackwards on this track at Trinity,\" just to work different muscles. And I\nforgot that there was a tire--for some reason, there was a tire. It must have\nbeen used for the football team. And I fell right into it. Stupid.\n\nPASLEY: (laughs) That's great.\n\nKAPLAN: I also remember--and I don't know if this is before or after we formed\nthe track team--Coach Davis threw a football at me. And I grabbed it, but I\nended up breaking my finger!\n\nPASLEY: Oh. Man.\n\nKAPLAN: I know! So I don't know if that was (laughs)--if we were doing our speed\nwork or it was just something else. But, you know, our team was not a--I don't\nknow--we weren't real official.\n\nPASLEY: No, no.\n\nKAPLAN: I mean, we were official, but we had those awful, awful shoes--\n\nPASLEY: Yes.\n\nKAPLAN: --that were just shoes that you could bend in half.\n\nPASLEY: Right.\n\nKAPLAN: They were not real running shoes at all.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Where did you get those? Did you have to buy them?\n\nKAPLAN: They were just--no, they were just assigned to us. It was just almost\nlike a gum base. And they were black with a gummy kind of base on the bottom.\n\nPASLEY: I don't remember that.\n\nKAPLAN: And it was very thin, and you could just bend them. And I don't even\nknow if we ever got spikes or anything.\n\nPASLEY: I don't think we--I don't remember much, but I'm pretty sure we didn't.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And you didn't get uniforms, did you? Or did you?\n\nKAPLAN: I don't remember uniforms, but I still do have somewhere my sweatshirt\nthat says Trinity Track. So I'm gonna guess that we must have had a t-shirt as\nwell that said Trinity something. Or maybe just Trinity. But I don't recall.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: In 1976--\n\nPASLEY: Oh, there we go.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: --I have a photo here. One has Trinity University Hundred-Mile\nClub. That's intramurals.\n\nPASLEY: That was intramurals, right.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And then one I see does look--it says Trinity University. But it\nlooks like a diverse--it wasn't a standard set of uniforms.\n\nPASLEY: And that was the next year. That was '76.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah, that was the next year. Right.\n\nPOTEET: It was probably a t-shirt that came from the bookstore. Probably.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yes, yes, that would be it.\n\nKAPLAN: It very well may have been. But I still do have that sweatshirt. And\nhonestly I don't know if it said Trinity Track or just Trinity. But it's\nsomething that I kept for a long, long time.\n\nPASLEY: Let me ask you--and this is away from the intercollegiate sports, but\nalso, you ran the Turkey Trot. Remember that?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And you won it.\n\nKAPLAN: Yes, I think I beat the boys.\n\nPASLEY: You won it two ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=600.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"years. My freshman year--I thought freshman;\nit must be now sophomore year--I came in second behind you, and we didn't really\nknow each other. Yeah.\n\nKAPLAN: Oh!\n\nPASLEY: And so I was so--\n\nKAPLAN: Because that's before we even had the track team.\n\nPASLEY: Yes, yes. And I was so glad when you graduated, because I won the year\nyou left.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: (INAUDIBLE) I don't even know if we got a free turkey or something.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, we did.\n\nPOTEET: You got a turkey.\n\nPASLEY: We got a turkey.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah, but now I'm vegan, so I would never want it. I would have given it\nto you.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nPASLEY: You might have. And what does a kid in a dorm room do with a turkey? But\nanyway. KAPLAN: You know what? You take it home and give it to your mom.\n\nPASLEY: That's what I did. I took it to my grandparents.\n\nPOTEET: It was just before Thanksgiving.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, right, it's perfect for that. Turkey Trot.\n\nPOTEET: It probably went to Houston.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And wasn't it a problem for you that you didn't have enough--that\nwhen you went to these tournaments, you couldn't participate in all the events\nbecause you didn't have enough players? Is that right?\n\nPASLEY: Or enough for a relay.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah. We did have some relay, didn't we?\n\nPASLEY: I think we did.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah.\n\nKAPLAN: I think one of the things I sent, there was something--I think I recall\nseeing something about relay, but I don't really--I might have participated in\nit, but we--how many people were on our team? Like five?\n\nPASLEY: I want to say four. But I'm trying--\n\nKAPLAN: There was one woman who had really long blonde hair.\n\nPASLEY: Cindy Bishop (SP)?\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah, Cindy. She was from Houston as well.\n\nPASLEY: Yes. Cindy Bishop. I want to say she was the fourth one. I'm having\ntrouble too, Peggy, remembering that.\n\nKAPLAN: I don't know what her distance was. I know you were longer distance. I\nwas the 880, and that was pretty much all I did. I don't recall doing anything\nlonger than that. That was excruciating.\n\nPASLEY: Right. Do you remember doing relays, though?\n\nKAPLAN: I honestly don't. I don't remember handing the baton to anybody (INAUDIBLE).\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, that may have been after you left. Because I remember training\nwith a baton.\n\nPOTEET: Could the other person be Patty Riddle?\n\nKAPLAN: I don't remember that name.\n\nPOTEET: You don't remember that name? Okay.\n\nPASLEY: That's not ringing a bell.\n\nKAPLAN: I don't remember that name. I think the one--the only (laughs) event\nthat I remember participating in was the one where I was--I think that was our\nstate meet in San Marcos.\n\nPASLEY: Yes.\n\nKAPLAN: And I do distinctly remember running that. And in the last few seconds,\nthe woman--I was in third place, and a woman passed me, and she got third and I\ngot fourth. And while I was thrilled with that, I know that Texas A\u0026M, Prairie\nView Texas A\u0026M, they didn't even come to the meet because they had already\nqualified for the national championship. They were that good.\n\nPASLEY: Wow, sure.\n\nKAPLAN: So I'm sure they would have just taken the whole--and just swept the\nwhole thing. And I didn't go to the national championship.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's what I was going to ask you.\n\nKAPLAN: I qualified by two tenths of a second. Because you had to run under\ntwo-twenty-four (SP), and I ran two-twenty-three-eight (SP). But I was a poor\ncollege student and going all the way to Eugene, Oregon, that just wasn't in my\nmindset. And yet now, gosh, that would have been amazing!\n\nPASLEY: Yeah. And obviously the school didn't step up and offer to send you.\n\nKAPLAN: No. I think we were just a team of our own, thanks to Shirley.\n\nPASLEY: Do you remember much about the road trips that we took, like who drove\nand where did we eat and stuff like that?\n\nKAPLAN: I don't remember that, but I'm pretty sure it was Coach Davis all the\ntime. And I thought he was very supportive of what we did. And I think he\nenjoyed having a women's team.\n\nPASLEY: That's neat, yeah. And so really the problems we had with the track team\nwere, I think, Peggy, the next year, where we went through three coaches.\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, really?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: In one year, right?\n\nPASLEY: In one year. So those are the articles that I've been digging up, about\nthat following year.\n\nKAPLAN: Why did it die? Why all of a sudden was there no track team after x\nmany--was there no interest? Do you know why it went south?\n\nPASLEY: You know, one of the things I--and what's also interesting, as I'm\ndigging up these articles from those days--and for whatever reason, I didn't run\nmy senior year, spring. And for the life of me, I can't remember why. But I was\ntelling these guys, you know, it's hard work. And a lot of women--well, first,\nlike you--I went to Robert E. Lee in Houston, and same thing--we had tennis and\nvolleyball and that was it. And so I think women just weren't used to tough workouts.\n\nAnd remember--well, so the second year, Peggy--the first year, it was you and me\nand Sue and maybe Cindy. And the three--I know you and me and Sue loved to run,\nand we just ate ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=900.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it up and we loved the intervals and all that. Cindy,\nas I recall, was a reluctant warrior. And then we got \"Rookie,\" Lynn Walker\n(SP), and she was a hard worker, but it was--\n\nKAPLAN: And Monica Flores.\n\nPASLEY: Monica Flores. I did not remember that. Yeah.\n\nKAPLAN: I think she was just in that first-year team.\n\nPASLEY: So my suspicion is just, you know, to show up every day, after lunch,\nand have to run for an hour or two, it was just not in our genetic code. And it\nwas really hard to get people who didn't enjoy running. And I was recruiting all\nthe time from the intramurals. Yeah. So that's my guess, is that--KAPLAN: So it\nkind of just drifted away.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, I think it just died a natural death. And then, you started\ngetting track teams in high school. Because we were also working without a base,\nif that makes sense.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point. But it certainly\nwas impactful in my life.\n\nPASLEY: Well, and that was my next question was, how do you think that really\nhelped you as you matured?\n\nKAPLAN: I think you probably feel the same way, and I think anybody who does\nsomething athletic like this, whether it's teaching or participating in sport, I\nthink it really raises your level of self-confidence. And for me, it just made\nme feel like, \"This is something I can do.\" I recall running one day with\nyou--well, I'm not sure if you ran with us, Douglas, or Doug, but there was--we\nran--it was either six miles or 10 miles. It was like at the end of the year.\nAnd it must have been '75. We went out and ran six miles or 10 miles. And I\nthought, \"I'm sure no one in the world has ever run this far.\"\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: \"Aren't I amazing?\" And of course I collapsed and was exhausted and all\nthat, but it was thrilling to have gone a distance. So for me--you know, you do\nget a little addicted to sport. And in my case, it was running. And it was a\ngood addiction. And it just made me feel so empowered and so fresh. And just\nbeing able to do something physical that I loved so much.\n\nAnd it was such an easy sport to do. You just put on your running shoes and you\nopen the door and you go off. You don't need a tennis partner. You don't get\nanybody. You can go for a walk in the park or you can run through the park. But\nthere's something very thrilling about spending that time either in camaraderie\nwith other runners, or just being out there on your own and breathing the air\nand feeling alive.\n\nAnd so for me, it really impacted--it impacted my health. It was something I\ndecided, \"This is something I want to do the rest of my life.\" And I hoped at\nthat time that I would be able to do that. And I have parents that my father\nstarted running in the fifties. My mother went on to run her first marathon in 1976.\n\nPASLEY: Wow.\n\nKAPLAN: And it was something that--and my sister has run a marathon. My brother\nran the first Houston Marathon. So although we were never world-class, it was\njust something I loved. Whether it was running with you guys or a track team or\non my own, it was really wonderful. You know, you almost become a children again\nwhen you run.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah. Huh!\n\nKAPLAN: Nothing seems--you might be the richest businessman in town, and you\nmight be the poorest student on campus, but it just equalizes everyone. We're\njust out there to go running, just like we might have done when we were little\nkids. And it's a form of play. And I feel for some of the runners today that--or\nanybody in sport. If it's not something that you just love to do, chances are\nyou're not going to do it when you're older. And I see so many people that burn\nout because of either coaches or whatever it might be.\n\nBut I think I--one of my t-shirts that I still have upstairs from the Bellaire\nRecreation Center just says \"Run for Fun.\" Back then, we didn't make money\nwinning races. Nowadays, you make money and, you know, you get on a box of\nWheaties. Back then, we just did it. It was just fun to do. So it really did\nlaunch me into--it actually launched me into my career in television, and it was\npretty ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1200.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"amazing.\n\nPOTEET: Peggy, deep in my memory, one of our students--and I'm thinking it was\nyou--ran the Olympic torch. Was that you?\n\nPASLEY: That was me.\n\nPOTEET: That was you?\n\nKAPLAN: Awesome! Betsy! In '84?\n\nPASLEY: Well, it was great timing. I was working with AT\u0026T, and they were the\nsponsors of the Olympic torch. And I was in Kansas City and they started a\nCorporate Cup team. And back then, in the seventies and early eighties, running\nwas really a big fad. And so I actually--when I got to Texas, I organized a\nTexas team, and we competed in races against other--like IBM and Xerox. And so\nin '84 when they sponsored the--I know this is supposed to be about you, but\nI'll do this quickly--\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, no, no, no, no. I love hearing it.\n\nPASLEY: But no, and this is amazing. So in '82, there was a national competition\nout in San Jose, California, and I qualified for this AT\u0026T national team. And\nthere were about 20 of us, and we went out there.\n\nKAPLAN: The distance?\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, and I think I was--that's what I was trying to remember. They\nactually put me on like a mile relay, which 440 was my worst event, because they\nhad people better than me. But I made this team. So in '84 they're planning this\nOlympic torch relay from New York to L.A. It was in Los Angeles. And so the\npeople who were on the national team in '82 automatically made the torch relay\nteam. And so I was on the team. And I ran for a week from Golden, Colorado, to\nMountain Home, Idaho, where we ran like eight miles a day with the torch.\n\nAnd there were 12--there were three teams of four men and then one team of four\nwomen. The bad news is that I tore my fascia and my quadricep. So when I was\ntraining, I ran in a race and injured myself. So it was not--it was a maudlin\nexperience. But I got to carry the Olympic torch down these highways in Utah,\nwith people cheering. It was unbelievable.\n\nKAPLAN: What was the total distance that you ran as a team?\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, so we ran (INAUDIBLE) 16 people. And we always had the torch with\nus. And they were selling like a charity thing where you could pay a thousand\ndollars and they could run a kilometer. And so if there was somebody who paid,\nwe would run next to them. So we were always either with the torch or carrying\nit. So I still have my torch today. And I use it for children's sermons during\nOlympic years to talk about--\n\nKAPLAN: What do you mean, you have the torch?\n\nPASLEY: They had different torches. Each person had their own.\n\nKAPLAN: Got it. How cool is that!\n\nPASLEY: Yeah. So anyway, sorry about the aside. But again, if it had--so you got\na TV career, I was able to do something like that, all because of us standing on\nthat South dorm balcony.\n\nKAPLAN: You know, that's so true!\n\nPASLEY: Isn't that cool?\n\nKAPLAN: I think that's so true. Well, and I also got to carry a torch, but a\ndifferent torch. Shall I tell you about it?\n\nPASLEY: Yes!\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Was that 1977?\n\nKAPLAN: Yes, sir. It is. It is. Fast forward, now it's 1977. I move back to\nHouston. Now I ran my first marathon in 1976.\n\nPASLEY: Wow.\n\nKAPLAN: Because my mother was training for a marathon. I actually said she ran\nher first in '76; she got shin splints and ran her first a year later, in '77.\nOr, excuse me, in--yeah, let's see--wait, sorry. Brain fade (SP). I moved back\nto Houston--I moved to Houston and I ran the Crowley Marathon, I guess it was\n'76, in Louisiana. Then Houston was selected as the site to celebrate the\nInternational Year of the Woman, and to work on--\n\nPASLEY: ERA?\n\nKAPLAN: --on the Equal Rights Amendment that they wanted to get passed, to\nratify--they wanted to get all the states to ratify this, so we could have an\nEqual Rights Amendment for women in--that would affect everybody, all the women\nacross the country. And so one of the things that they had done before this\nconference was to begin, was to have a torch relay from Seneca Falls, New York,\nto Houston, to open the conference.\n\nPASLEY: Yes, yes. (laugh) That's right!\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah! Because--well, so I got a call from someone asking ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1500.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"me\nif I would fly up to Alabama to run a 16-mile leg of the torch relay, because\nPhyllis Schlafly, who was the head of the anti-ERA movement, she had convinced\nrunners to boycott the 16-mile leg of this relay.\n\nPASLEY: Wow.\n\nKAPLAN: So I was flown up there and I carried the torch. I didn't have--there\nwas no harassment or anything like that. I carried the torch the 16-mile length\nand then we came back to Houston, and I was asked to carry the torch in the\nfinal mile to open the conference along with two other women.\n\nPASLEY: That's so cool!\n\nPOTEET: Okay, that's what I remembered. I remembered your carrying it into--the Astrodome?\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah. (INAUDIBLE) into the--I think it was just into the Convention\nCenter in Houston.\n\nPOTEET: Yeah, in Houston. Yes.KAPLAN: Yeah. Phyllis Schlafly I think had\norganized--they had bussed in women from around the country, as opposition, and\nI think they were in the Houston Astrodome. So I went--I ran this torch in, the\nlast mile. And of course Bella Abzug and Betty Friedan and Billie Jean King and\nso many notables were right there.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: Sylvia Ortiz was there with me. She was one of the people carrying the\ntorch. And Michelle Cersei. So the three of us carried this.\n\nPASLEY: That's so cool.\n\nKAPLAN: And Donna de Varona was also there. And Suzy Chafee was there. And we\ncarried this torch right in to start the conference and handed it to three\nformer first ladies--Rosalynn Carter, Ford, and I think Nancy Reagan, I'm\nthinking. I'm not sure. But anyway, sadly, I think the ERA was not ratified by\nthree states, and it just failed. And so here we are again 41 years later, still\ndealing with similar issues.\n\nIt was still a thrill for me to--still quite a thrill to be a participant in\nthat. It was at that--prior to walking up with the torch, a young woman came\nover to me and said, \"If you, by any chance, get interviewed for this\"--and I\nhad no idea what kind of press coverage we would get, anyway. But she knew I was\na marathoner, and she introduced herself as Jacqueline Hansen. And Leal-Ann\nReinhart, these two women. Jacqueline Hansen had broken the--she was the first\nwoman to break two hours and 40 minutes in the marathon. And Leal-Ann Reinhart\nthat year was the national champion. And they said, \"You know, there is no\nmarathon for women in the Olympics, and we really would love to see that in\n'19--\" or \"We'd really love to see that at some point in the future.\" So that's\nwhat my comment was in Time magazine, when that happened. And that was a\ncomplete surprise, that I would be picked on the cover. That was kind of a shock.\n\nPASLEY: Bill wants you to know that he still has that cover on his wall.\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, wonderful. I have this huge stack of them over on my table because I\nhad gone to the Women's Conference 40 Years Later\" (SP) in Houston this last fall.\n\nPASLEY: Wow. Cool.\n\nKAPLAN: And so I'm going to be donating a lot of my paraphernalia from that time\nperiod to University of Houston so they can--\n\nPASLEY: That's awesome.\n\nKAPLAN: I have no children, and I'm sure my nieces and nephews probably would\nnot be watching this. So my dad bought like 100 copies.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nPASLEY: Should we ask Peggy for a copy for our archives?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah, we'd like to have something like that, for our archives.\n\nPASLEY: Could we have some?\n\nKAPLAN: I would be more than happy to.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We probably subscribe to Time, but we may not have the originals anymore.\n\nPASLEY: But if you've got a few handy.\n\nKAPLAN: They're piled high.\n\nPASLEY: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: They're over there. And I just gotta ship them out. So we'll make sure I (INAUDIBLE).\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And do you have any photos from your track days at Trinity?\n\nKAPLAN: You know what? I don't think anybody ever took a picture of us.\n\nPASLEY: Me neither. No, they didn't.\n\nKAPLAN: Well, guarantee that they took a lot of pictures of the tennis team.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I know. We know that. We're well aware of that.\n\nPASLEY: We picked the wrong sport for publicity.\n\nKAPLAN: Oh my god! No, I don't have any pictures from that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Could I ask you another question? Was Libby Johnson involved in\nany of this?\n\nKAPLAN: She was the coach, wasn't she?\n\nPASLEY: For the all the other teams, but she really--I don't remem-- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1800.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ncause, yeah. I don't remember.\n\nKAPLAN: (INAUDIBLE) that woman right there in the middle of this screen. Shirley Rushing.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay, that's what I wanted to get.\n\nKAPLAN: Would never have had a track team if it hadn't been for you.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay, that's great.\n\nKAPLAN: I wouldn't even have known to even think about it. But you just--one\nsimple comment, like, \"Hey, you like to run so much, why don't you start a track team?\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's great, that's great.\n\nKAPLAN: So that happened. And then I will just say after the appearance on Time\nmagazine, that led to--and it was such a running boom at that time--that I was\nasked to go on television--with the theater background--go on TV and talk about\nrunning, once a week. And on the newscast, I would do a running segment, and\nthat led to me applying for a job with PM Magazine in San Antonio.\n\nAnd then I went on from there and continued racing until the Olympic trials in\n'84. Qualifying. I fortunately qualified, by just a few minutes, but I did\nqualify to run in the trials. But eventually, Jacqueline Hansen and Leal-Ann\nReinhart and some other people, they worked very hard--I think they even sued\nthe International Olympic Committee in order to get that into the Olympics.\n\nPASLEY: So '84 was the first year for the women's marathon, right?\n\nKAPLAN: Right.\n\nPASLEY: I remember this now.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah. And you had to qualify with a time of 2:51:16 (SP)--two hours,\n51:16 (SP). And I qualified with 2:49:05 (SP).\n\nPASLEY: Wow, that's incredible! (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: It was terrifying.\n\nPASLEY: Wow, what a--are you still running?\n\nKAPLAN: You know, my objective--my dad lived to be almost 95, and we both worked\nout at the same gym. And he was still walking in his 94th year. And my objective\nis to be able to continue moving. And if that means just walking, I'm fine with\nthat. I'm extremely competitive within myself but I also don't want to get\ninjured. I have no interest in racing against anybody, but if I can go out in a\npark or just moving--I find cross-training is probably the best. And for me,\nit's a little swimming, a little biking, a little jogging. I'm fortunate that I\ndon't have any major injuries at this time, but I want to just keep moving,\nwhether it's water aerobics or something. I'm sure--you both look like you're\nstill in great shape, so you obviously keep moving.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, I'm 85 and I run--\n\nKAPLAN: Are you really?!\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I run three times a week with Ken Hummel. He was in that original group.\n\nKAPLAN: He was in that group.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So we're the only two.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, they're actually running--so Bill and I walk now. We had to kind\nof--I had to quit running. My knees are bad, so I had to quit running a few\nyears ago. But we would slog or kind of do a slow jog with John Donahue, and\nthen Johnny died. And now Bill and I still walk, but Bill is 88 and a half.\n\nKAPLAN: Is that right!?\n\nPASLEY: Yeah.\n\nKAPLAN: Well, just don't stop!\n\nPASLEY: (INAUDIBLE)\n\nPOTEET: We're all making confessions now. I'm 82--\n\nKAPLAN: Wow.\n\nPASLEY: She doesn't look it.\n\nPOTEET: --and I work out three times a week at a gym using the Arc, because I\nhave some knee problems. And I found that the Arc is the easiest machine on the knees.\n\nKAPLAN: Is that like an elliptical or something?\n\nPOTEET: It's not as much bicycle motion as an elliptical. It's between an\nelliptical and a ski machine.\n\nKAPLAN: I know what you're talking about.\n\nPOTEET: And so you can set it at the height you wish.\n\nKAPLAN: I've never seen one of those. I've never seen one.\n\nPOTEET: Yeah, well, ask about them.\n\nKAPLAN: But are you dancing, still?\n\nPOTEET: No, because my husband has had a bad knee. It's not because I don't want to.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nPOTEET: But I do weights, also, three times a week. And I ride a bicycle in the\nneighborhood. I ride a recumbent in the neighborhood.\n\nKAPLAN: And you're 82?\n\nPOTEET: Yes.\n\nPASLEY: Isn't that incredible?\n\nKAPLAN: And how old are you again, Doug?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Pardon?\n\nKAPLAN: You're 85?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Eighty-five. Will be 86 this summer.\n\nPASLEY: Isn't that incredible?\n\nKAPLAN: Wow. So no knee problems on your end?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, way back there, I had some cartilage trimmed on my knees.\nBut I just wear a soft knee brace. And we don't try to set any record--we're the\nsame way.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah. No records.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We just came in from running today. And every day, we say how\ngreat we feel when we finish. That's the big thing. We're not setting any\nrecords. But we do move along. In fact, we were talking about actually timing\nourselves, and I said, \"I don't even know if I want to know. I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2100.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"don't\neven know if I want to know.\"\n\nPOTEET: And as you age, it's how good you feel that you finished.\n\nPASLEY: Mmhmm.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yes! Right, right.\n\nKAPLAN: Yes. I am so appreciative of the fact that my body still works. There\nare parts that don't work so well. And you know, when I see--when I occasionally\nglance at the record books to see what another 65-year-old might do in a mile,\nit's like, \"Well, I wonder--\" And just like you, you could probably look and go,\n\"Well I wonder what the 85-year-olds are doing.\" But you know what? On my\ntombstone, it's not going to say, \"Oh, here were her times.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: No, no.\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: I think that the joy of fitness, of moving, of lifting weights or of\nbeing able to still just move, doing it as a form of fun. And even if maybe we\ndon't like it when we get into the gym, but once we're done, it's like, \"This\nwas great. I'm glad we did it.\" To me, that's so important. And I really hope\nfor all of us that it can be something that we do our whole lives.\n\nBut I will say this: I did go to the--I'd never been but I went to the Olympic\ntrials in Eugene, Oregon, last year. I love watching athletes in motion, and I'd\nnever done that. I didn't want to go to Rio (de Janeiro, Brazil). I wanted to\nget a seat in Eugene, sitting there, watching these athletes. Beautiful athletes.\n\nAnd I contacted--because I became friends with her--Jacqueline Hansen. And\nJacqueline uses an elliptical bike. Because she has really bad knees now. But we\nwent to the trials with my younger sister, and I asked Jacqueline--because I\ndon't know what her best time was, but I think it was something like\n2:38:something (SP). And I said, \"Do you feel like you ever left something on\nthe track?\" In other words, \"Do you think that you could have done better?\" And\nshe said, \"No, I feel like I accomplished what I wanted to accomplish.\" I don't\nfeel like that. I feel like my time that I had, which I ran in D.C.--and I had\nno one to run near me; it was just me.\n\nPASLEY: Hard.\n\nKAPLAN: There were only 60 people. It was the last certified course you could\nrun to qualify for the Olympic trials except for Boston. And I do wonder, \"What\ncould I have done?\" And so that competitive nature within me is still there, but\nI also don't want to get injured. That's terrifying, to not be able to continue\ndoing just what all four of us are doing, just getting out there, and just being\nout there.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Don't you think--I've thought this--that you somehow in your life\nyou have to reach a point to where you feel uncomfortable if you're not moving.\nAnd that's where a lot of people, they never get that far. They feel\nuncomfortable, and so they stop. But you have to get to where you feel\nuncomfortable when you're not doing it.\n\nKAPLAN: Right. It's kind of like a seatbelt.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And I think that's what kind of keeps you going. And it's that\nmemory that once you do go out, whatever it is you're doing, you're going to\nfeel better. You're going to feel better.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah. (INAUDIBLE).\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And it's a great feeling.\n\nKAPLAN: And it's really just putting one foot in front of the other, whether you (INAUDIBLE).\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's right. Whatever it is.\n\nKAPLAN: A walk. But I could tout--I'm sure we all could--actually, the camera\nshould be turned, and we should be doing this story on you all! Because you\nreally are the people that inspire other people and that, at your ages--and\nBetsy, you're still young.\n\nPASLEY: Right. I am. Younger than you.\n\nPOTEET: She's a kid. A kid.\n\nKAPLAN: She is. You're still a kid.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But I want to say this to you, though, Peggy--that for us, it's\nyou people who inspire us. And Betsy, you inspire us, because we think, \"Look\nwhere we are today.\" If there hadn't been women who were willing to be pioneers,\nwho had to work under conditions that women today would say, \"Oh, that's\nhorrible, that's terrible\"--that they did this.\n\nAnd this is one reason why we're doing this is to try to bring this back and to\nhighlight the names of people. But it's not so much just the individuals as it\nis these collective group of women who really pioneered, you know? I mean, under\nall kinds of difficult conditions. That was one other question I wanted to ask\nwas, when you were there at Trinity, did you feel that it was still women\nshouldn't be out doing those things? Or did you not pick that up? That wasn't--\n\nKAPLAN: I didn't really care.  ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2400.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's what they all say! Okay, that's--\n\nPOTEET: That's the same--same answer we got--you remember Emilie Burrer Foster,\nthe tennis player?\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, yeah!\n\nPOTEET: That's exactly the answer we got from Emilie last week! (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: That's funny.\n\nPOTEET: Exact words.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That \"I didn't care.\" Yeah. (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: You know, it was just fun. And no, I didn't care at all. I didn't even\nget jealous that the tennis team had all the people filling the stands. I don't\nthink we--I don't even know if we ever had a meet at Trinity.\n\nPASLEY: We didn't.\n\nKAPLAN: I mean, we probably did. I don't know.\n\nPASLEY: I don't think we did.\n\nKAPLAN: I mean, it wasn't about people coming to watch us; it was about us\ngetting to do something as a little cohesive group, to do something together.\nAnd it was scary, but it was really fun. And I think we were all doing it for\nourselves and the little collective group of our little team.\n\nPOTEET: This is exactly the answer we're getting from the basketball players and\nthe volleyball players.\n\nKAPLAN: Really!\n\nPOTEET: Exactly. And no one seems to be jealous or upset. The common answer is,\n\"That's just the way it was.\" And people accepted it at that point and went on\nabout their business.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah, yeah. I can only imagine if we'd seen what really good running\nshoes looked like!\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: We didn't know!\n\nPASLEY: We had Keds!\n\nKAPLAN: We were just happy to have a team. Just happy to have a team.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, I pulled my arches out the first time I ran, I think, because\nthere was no arch support.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah, there was nothing.\n\nPASLEY: And I always had tendonitis. You know, though, another thing that you\nand I shared, Peggy, and I wonder if this didn't--one part of the reason that we\ndidn't feel weird about running as women was we were in that noontime running\ngroup. And you mentioned that. I still remember--I was telling Bill about that\nrun today, I think--I remember we ran Fort Sam and it was like a 10-mile run, then.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, yeah.\n\nPASLEY: And of course I was always trying to keep up with Peggy, so that's what\nkept me in shape. But here we were; it was you and me and Faye (SP) and every\nnow and then some other female. And we're in this group with professors and\nministers. The ones who are still alive, I still stay in touch with, by the way,\nincluding Doug. And I think in that group, we were all equals. And maybe we\nbenefited from that when we did go into this more segregated activity. I don't\nknow. I'm just speculating.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's interesting. Yeah, maybe.\n\nPASLEY: But we had that.\n\nKAPLAN: I think sometimes we'd go to Bombay Bicycle Club.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right, right.\n\nPASLEY: Oh yeah, we did. Yeah. To rehydrate.\n\nKAPLAN: (INAUDIBLE) But it was something else. I can't imagine what my life\nwould have been like if I had not started running then. It saved my mother. You\nknow, a marriage falling apart. As she says, even today--she'll be 92 next\nmonth--she said, \"You can't cry when you run.\"\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nKAPLAN: You just go out and run and--she did fantastic. She was just great. I\nthink it's hard for her now, because she can't run.\n\nPASLEY: Sure. It is hard. Yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I interviewed a tennis player who played before there--they didn't\neven have the teams. And I asked her something about her experience. And she\nsaid, \"The one thing I missed was playing with the team.\" She played tennis, but\nit was Shirley--again, Shirley was helping her get matches and do things, but\nshe never had the experience of having a full team. And she said she missed that\ncamaraderie that goes with it.\n\nKAPLAN: That would have been nice.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah. No matter how small it is, even three or four or five.\n\nPOTEET: You might have known her--Mary McLean. Do you remember Mary McLean?\n\nKAPLAN: No, I don't remember her. But I think--didn't you pretty much help\norganize the team, Shirley, and help fund it, and do all of that, in the early sixties?\n\nPOTEET: Yes, yes.\n\nKAPLAN: That's incredible.\n\nPOTEET: In '65, we had our first tennis player.\n\nKAPLAN: But you were not the coach, is that right? But you were the organizer of it?\n\nPOTEET: Well, we didn't have a coach until we won a national championship.\n\nPASLEY: Really!\n\nKAPLAN: (laugh)\n\nPOTEET: I was what they called the sponsor.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Sponsor, yeah.\n\nPOTEET: Which meant I did the matches, the paperwork, the funding, everything\nthat a coach normally does. But, we also didn't have access to courts--\n\nPASLEY: Oh, wow.\n\nPOTEET: --in '68 and '69 when we won the national championship twice.\n\nKAPLAN: How did they practice?\n\nPOTEET: On weekends, they could get on the men's courts ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2700.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/transcript/30548/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"occasionally,\nor at McFarlin. But we did not have access to courts until the early seventies.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: When they built those other courts--\n\nPASLEY: The lower courts.\n\nPOTEET: They built the lower courts.\n\nKAPLAN: Unbelievable.\n\nPOTEET: Because we were hosting the men's NCAAs.\n\nPASLEY: Oh, gosh. (laughs)\n\nPOTEET: And so they built eight additional courts because they had to have at\nleast 12 courts.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: It was for the men, though.\n\nPOTEET: Yeah, it was for the men that they were built. But once we had--\n\nKAPLAN: Unbelievable.\n\nPOTEET: Once we have the eight different courts, then that's when--and we also\nhave two women who did the same thing you did, who went to the Athletic Council,\nand you know, I told them how to get through this. And so the tennis team was\nnot recognized until--\n\nKAPLAN: You are this amazing activist, Shirley.\n\nPOTEET: I didn't even know I was an activist. I thought I was just passing on\ninformation (laugh) that our students should have! I mean, you were paying to\ncome here, and you need to have the information, and it wasn't being published\nin the papers. And so when I found out, I would pass the information on.\n\nKAPLAN: No, I think just doing that simple move of passing along some\ninformation on \"This is how you can do it\"--that's amazing.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, she's amazing because she was the only woman in the PE\nDepartment for about 12 years, wasn't that right?\n\nPOTEET: (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Can you imagine being the only the only woman?\n\nKAPLAN: I cannot.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So anything that happened, happened through her.\n\nKAPLAN: I know that you've been written about in the--I think maybe when you\nretired, I'm not sure, in a Trinity publication.\n\nPOTEET: He did an interview. He interviewed me for the Trinity publication.\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, it was a great interview.\n\nPOTEET: Yes.\n\nKAPLAN: I looked at it again today. But you know, I voted for--I think they had\nsome Hall of Fame or something at Trinity. Have you been (INAUDIBLE)?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Don't worry about that.\n\nPASLEY: We're going to take care of that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We're going to take care of that.\n\nPOTEET: (laughs)\n\nKAPLAN: Okay, because I (INAUDIBLE) last year or two years ago, when she started\nhelping me, I'm like, \"Well, I think this attention needs to go for women's\nsports (INAUDIBLE).\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: There were two women who really were basic to the formation of the\nearly years. One was Libby Johnson and she has been recognized. And the other is\nShirley Rushing, and she has not been.\n\nKAPLAN: And that may happen?\n\nPASLEY: It should.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We're going to make a--\n\nPASLEY: Should we have Peggy write something up?\n\nKAPLAN: Sure as hell better!\n\nPEOPLE: (laugh)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen.\n\nPASLEY: It should.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I sound like Donald Trump. \"It's gonna happen!\"\n\nPOTEET: (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: \"It's gonna happen! I can do it! I'm gonna make it!\"\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, really. Not yet.\n\nKAPLAN: Oh, good. Well, I'd be more than happy to help in any way I can.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, you already have, by what you said.\n\nKAPLAN: I don't think any of us are where we are if it hadn't been for someone\nelse who helped inspire us, encourage us, show us how to do something. We don't\ndo it on our own.\n\nPASLEY: And so what Shirley did for you, you did for me. So it is a legacy.\nThat's cool. It's so great to see you.\n\nKAPLAN: I appreciate that. I appreciate that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=3000.0,3300.0"}]},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Peggy_Kokernot_Kaplan.xml [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Introduction","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=0.0,119.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: This is January--where are we? The 20-\n\nKAPLAN: The 22nd. BRACKENRIDGE: The 22nd, 2018. And I'm Douglas Brackenridge, a retired professor at Trinity University. And with me is Shirley Rushing Poteet, who was in the Department of Physical Education from, what, 1960 to--?POTEET: To 1995. BRACKENRIDGE: To 1995. And we're interviewing Peggy Kokernot Kaplan--\n\nKAPLAN: That's right.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: --who was a student at Trinity from what years?KAPLAN: 1971 to 1975.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=0.0,119.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why Trinity?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=119.0,293.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: I was going to let you, Betsy, take the lead on this. Is that okay?\n\nPASLEY: Oh, okay!\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: If not, I'll do it. But we just started with the first question asking her about how she got to Trinity, and did athletics influence her decision to come. Because Betsy was more involved in this than I was. But we'll all--Shirley and I will feel free, and you feel free, to depart from--it's loose. It's a conversation.\n\nPASLEY: So I missed how Peggy came to Trinity.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: No, we haven't got there.\n\nPASLEY: Oh, good. Okay.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We just--start with that, and then was athletics some reason for coming, or other reasons.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=119.0,293.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Introduction to Athletics","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=293.0,386.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":" KAPLAN:...But it was my sophomore year when I started dating a Trinity tennis player, John Berman (SP). And I realized that Trinity and tennis, that was a 00:05:00huge deal there. And I loved going to the matches. I had never really participated, watched sports, anything. And I found myself always on the edge of my seat, just watching these tournaments. So I asked my boyfriend if maybe he could teach me how to play tennis. And that was absolutely disastrous.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=293.0,386.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Starting the Women's Track Team","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=386.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAPLAN:...About this time, my mother was going through a divorce in Houston, and a friend had suggested that they--that she start jogging. So she would write me or call me and tell me she was out there running. And I thought, \"Well, that sounds like a great thing to do.\" And so I remember just standing in my dorm room, in the North dorm room, looking down at that track and thinking, \"Maybe I'll go down there and try this out.\" And so my mother would tell me how far she was running, and so I'd increase my distance. She'd go a little further, and I'd go a little further. And I think that's probably when you might have heard or you might have seen me, Shirley, showing you this interest that I had in running. I don't know if I should extend on in this conversation to the conversation you and I had, or if I should stop.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=386.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Women's Track Team Resources","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=780.0,889.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAPLAN: I know! So I don't know if that was (laughs)--if we were doing our speed work or it was just something else. But, you know, our team was not a--I don't know--we weren't real official.\n\nPASLEY: No, no.\n\nKAPLAN: I mean, we were official, but we had those awful, awful shoes--\n\nPASLEY: Yes.\n\nKAPLAN: --that were just shoes that you could bend in half.\n\nPASLEY: Right.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=780.0,889.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Turkey Trot","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=889.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY: Let me ask you--and this is away from the intercollegiate sports, but also, you ran the Turkey Trot. Remember that?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And you won it.\n\nKAPLAN: Yes, I think I beat the boys.\n\nPASLEY: You won it two years. My freshman year--I thought freshman it must be now sophomore year--I came in second behind you, and we didn't really know each other. Yeah.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=889.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Women's Track Team Participation","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=942.0,1130.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: And wasn't it a problem for you that you didn't have enough--that when you went to these tournaments, you couldn't participate in all the events because you didn't have enough players? Is that right?\n\nPASLEY: Or enough for a relay.\n\nKAPLAN: Yeah. We did have some relay, didn't we?\n\nPASLEY: I think we did.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=942.0,1130.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Women's Track Team Problems","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1130.0,1256.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY: Do you remember much about the road trips that we took, like who drove and where did we eat and stuff like that?\n\nKAPLAN: I don't remember that, but I'm pretty sure it was Coach Davis all the time. And I thought he was very supportive of what we did. And I think he enjoyed having a women's team.\n\nPASLEY: That's neat, yeah. And so really the problems we had with the track team were, I think, Peggy, the next year, where we went through three coaches.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1130.0,1256.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Impact of Athletics on Life","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1256.0,1503.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY: Well, and that was my next question was, how do you think that really helped you as you matured?\n\nKAPLAN: I think you probably feel the same way, and I think anybody who does something athletic like this, whether it's teaching or participating in sport, I think it really raises your level of self-confidence. And for me, it just made me feel like, \"This is something I can do.\" I recall running one day with you--well, I'm not sure if you ran with us, Douglas, or Doug, but there was--we ran--it was either six miles or 10 miles. It was like at the end of the year. And it must have been '75. We went out and ran six miles or 10 miles. And I thought, \"I'm sure no one in the world has ever run this far.\"","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1256.0,1503.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Running the 1984 Olympic Torch ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1503.0,1678.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Running the 1977 National Women's Conference Torch","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=1678.0,2086.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kaplan Credits Poteet ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2086.0,2125.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: Could I ask you another question? Was Libby Johnson involved in any of this?\n\nKAPLAN: She was the coach, wasn't she?\n\nPASLEY: For the all the other teams, but she really--I don't remem-- 00:35:00cause, yeah. I don't remember.\n\nKAPLAN: (INAUDIBLE) that woman right there in the middle of this screen. Shirley Rushing.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay, that's what I wanted to get.\n\nKAPLAN: Would never have had a track team if it hadn't been for you.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2086.0,2125.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Running Later in Life","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2125.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAPLAN: So that happened. And then I will just say after the appearance on Time magazine, that led to--and it was such a running boom at that time--that I was asked to go on television--with the theater background--go on TV and talk about running, once a week. And on the newscast, I would do a running segment, and that led to me applying for a job with PM Magazine in San Antonio.\n\nAnd then I went on from there and continued racing until the Olympic trials in '84. Qualifying. I fortunately qualified, by just a few minutes, but I did qualify to run in the trials. But eventually, Jacqueline Hansen and Leal-Ann Reinhart and some other people, they worked very hard--I think they even sued the International Olympic Committee in order to get that into the Olympics.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2125.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Reflections on early Trinity Women's Athletics","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2640.0,3203.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139/index/48424/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: But I want to say this to you, though, Peggy--that for us, it's you people who inspire us. And Betsy, you inspire us, because we think, \"Look where we are today.\" If there hadn't been women who were willing to be pioneers, who had to work under conditions that women today would say, \"Oh, that's horrible, that's terrible\"--that they did this.\n\nAnd this is one reason why we're doing this is to try to bring this back and to highlight the names of people. But it's not so much just the individuals as it is these collective group of women who really pioneered, you know? I mean, under all kinds of difficult conditions. That was one other question I wanted to ask was, when you were there at Trinity, did you feel that it was still women shouldn't be out doing those things? Or did you not pick that up? That wasn't--","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46083/file/119139#t=2640.0,3203.0"}]}]}]}