{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/707wm1557m/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Felipe Reyes Jr."]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Felipe Reyes Jr. TU Treasures Oral History Collection. UAOH003-017. Coates Library Special Collections and Archives. Trinity University (San Antonio, Tex.).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Special Collections and Archives, Trinity University"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["TU Treasures Oral History Collection"]}},{"label":{"en":["Participants"]},"value":{"en":["Felipe Reyes Jr. (Interviewee)","Lee Denney (Interviewer)","Abra Schnur (Monitor)","archives@trinity.edu (Metadata contact)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2023-10-27 (captured)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["San Antonio (Tex.) (spatial)","Michigan (spatial)","1971-1973 (temporal)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["MP3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["UAOH003-017 (local)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Conmemorando a la Comunidad (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History","Sound Recording"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collections/default_thumbs/000/002/313/small/Confluence_graphic_%282%29.jpg?1704393526","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Reyes_Jr-Felipe-20231027-MIX_PIIedit.mp3"]},"duration":9451.73333,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collections/default_thumbs/000/002/313/small/Confluence_graphic_%282%29.jpg?1704393526","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-trinityuniversity.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/254/720/original/Reyes_Jr-Felipe-20231027-MIX_PIIedit.mp3?1729618242","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":9451.73333,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview with Felipe Reyes Jr. - Session 1 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DENNY: Today is October 27th, 2023. I am Lee Denny, a student at Trinity University and today I'm interviewing Felipe Reyes. Reyes is an alumni of Trinity University and was here from 1968 to 1972. I'm also joined by Dr. Dania Abreu-Torres and the University Archivist Abra Schnur who will be monitoring the recording equipment. The interview today will mainly focus on Chicano experiences at Trinity as well as the Con Safos [Con Safo] Art Collective. This interview is being recorded for the Comemorando a la Comunidad Latinx Experiences at Trinity and archived with the University Archives, part of Trinity University Special Collections and Archives and Coates Library. \n\nDENNEY: What was it like for you growing up? Can you walk me through some of your earliest childhood memories of family, friends, community? \n\nREYES: Yeah, I went to school on the Westside. I graduated from—I went to Lanier High School but I didn't graduate. I had to drop out because my father had gotten sick and I had to work to have food coming to the house and, so I did.  And didn't earn very much but it was enough to help us have a roof and food on the table. And I was very poor, very, very poor and it was very, very difficult.  But you know, when you're a young person, a little kid, you don't notice that and you just kind of live your life and you play with the other kids. We just—we were in the same situation, and just having fun playing ball or chasing each other or wrestling and doing all those things that kids do, guys do anyway. (laughs) I know girls do different things. And so I was happy and it was fun.  And I wanted to go to college, and I tried to finish school. I started working. I started working at—my first job was at a grocery store that was near my house. It was called Centeno [Centeno Grocery Store]–and you remember that (Denney laughs). And I live about a block away from there on Alazan Street. Alazan of course has a whole housing project down the road by the Guadalupe [Guadalupe Cultural Arts Center]. And I'm involving all the history, by the way. And the––I lost my train of thought.\n\nDENNEY: That’s okay.  Your first job? \n\nREYES: Oh yes, it was at Centeno.  And then my second job was at John Herweck’s, the art store. And I was a stock boy there. And so I went in and I organized all the stuff. I knew what they were and what they were used for. Most of them, not all of them, most of them. So I knew how to organize them so that when you were looking for them, how to find them. They were sort of like in a shambles. They sort of have them in bunches, but they were not organized within those bunches. So I started doing the organizational parts of the place there. I took pride in being there because I loved art, and so I wanted that place to be a great place. So I swept and I did everything that I could, dusted the place down. And my section was going to be the best section in the store. So I worked very hard at it. And I had pride in my work. And I loved everything that I did there. And then later on within the store, I got transferred to another department that did framing, picture framing. So then I was to––the guy needed help and they figured, well, go over there and give him a hand, see what you can do.  And so I did. I started—I became his assistant, and I did framing and the minor stuff.  He did that—really super craftsman carpenter stuff.  I was not a trained carpenter. \n\nAnd so—and then from there––during that time, I was going to art galleries and meeting with my art friends and that sort of thing. And these are people that were already working in the field and exhibiting. And they were professional people, and—and so they kept my spirits up in terms of my engagement and involvement in art. I used to go to the art museums.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=0.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Witte was the art museum at that time. And—oh and before that––something important. When I was in high school, I had to two art instructors. One was Jim Stoker, who taught at Trinity [Trinity University]. And the other one was William Radford Thomas and he taught at Lanier. Both of them taught at Lanier. And Thomas also taught at the San Antonio Art Institute, which was within the grounds of the McNay Museum [McNay Art Museum]. It's [referring to the San Antonio Art Institute] not there anymore. They tore it down, and they built another building. And then that building was such a turkey that it used too much power and they couldn't afford it, so they had to get rid of that. And I don't think it's been rebuilt as far as I know. And so—that's the other school that I went to. That school was a very important one to me. \n\nAnd when I was in—at the frame shop, I then went––an artist friend of mine that I met that I was hanging around with opened up an art gallery. And he says, “Will you run it for me?” Yeah, well yes, I'll do that! (both laugh) “I'll pay you whatever they're paying you over there.” I said, “Okay, great!”  So I went over there. And I was still a kid, about eighteen, nineteen years old, something like that. And so that's what I did. It was in La Villita. Where all those little galleries—I was in one of those. \n\nSCHNUR: What was the name of the gallery? \n\nREYES: Galerías Almazán. And that—the name of the artist is Jesse Almazán. He was one of the Con Safo members. We pulled him into our group now. He was very good to me. I think that he was already professional. He was working at Kelly Field, as—I'm not sure what his job title was, but he sort of did lettering and illustration work, and ads, and brochures, and all that sort of thing. It's kind of full range kind of thing. And so—and when he painted professionally, he won most of the prizes. He and Jesse Almazán. Jesse Almazán and José Esquivel was it— two of the most skilled—they were both sign painters. The third sign painter was called Chista [Jesse “Chista” Cantú]. He was not one that didn't come into the Con Safo because I did not let him, unfortunately. But we couldn’t—I couldn't allow it. And I'll talk about that as we talk about that. I have a lot of things going on, so it may take me a while. \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah.\n\nREYES: And so I worked at—at the gallery. I'm trying to recall my history here, whether it's in the right order or not. (laughs)\n\nDENNEY: It’s okay.\n\nREYES: I'm not sure I'm getting the chronology right, because I also worked at a department store that was very high end, sort of like Saks [Fifth Avenue]. It's called Frost Brothers. And I worked in the advertising department. I had no advertising experience, but I was on the job training, type of thing. And I did what was called production work, I was a production artist, which means that when the illustrators finished with their work, then I would take it and prepare for the press by doing the cropping and marks and all the instructions to the newspaper on how to print, that kind of thing. And so, I didn't know how to do any of that. And I hadn’t the foggiest idea. I was told enough just to be able to get the product out. So I still don’t—didn't know enough about it, because there were other things that needed to be done. But that's what I did. The other job that I had was—let's see, I went from there to there—I'm trying to remember where I went to. \n\nI went to—I'm not sure the chronology is correct, but I think I went into the military at that point, because things were not happening very well for me. And—it was not having enough to live on,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=300.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically, the idea. And I figured, well, at least I'll get some food (laughter). And I'll be able to—maybe get some training for some—maybe a job. (inaudible) Get a job, they would pay me enough. \n\nSCHNUR: What year did you enlist? \n\nREYES: What year? 1963, and I got out in 1967. \n\nSCHNUR: Okay.\n\nREYES: It was a three-year contract, and it lasted four. And so––and I couldn't ‘em to get my discharge papers to reflect four years. It did it by the enlistment and discharge date, but the credit was only for three years. Now you see why I also talk about how I behave. And I'll just mention a few things when I get to that point, on that. I went into the military, and I didn't want to kill anybody. That wasn't my thing. I wasn't a superhero kind of mindset. And back when you're in the military, you better be a superhero or you die. And so, it’s either kill or be killed. And if you don't kill ‘em, they're not only going to kill you, they're going to kill the buddy next to you. So you need to protect them too. And so those things were explained to me that it's very important for us to do that. I became a medic, you know, prior to that. And so that—that's what I wanted to study, but I went to basic training. Everybody goes to basic training and you're prepared to go to war in basic training. Medics go to the battlefront. I said, “What?” (laughter) And they're the ones most likely to be killed because you're not shooting back. You're picking up the wounded and transporting them on litters. And you're running around with litters and the patient. And they're shooting at you. And so they get killed at a very high rate. And so I said, “Oh my, what did I do?” I said, “Well, if I have a choice, between killing and being killed, that's the way I'm going to go.” \n\nAnd so—I did it. Finished my training. Got assigned to a unit. Oh, I did my medical training here at Fort Sam [Fort Sam Houston]. My basic at Fort Polk [renamed Fort Johnson], Louisiana. And then from here, I went to Augsburg, Germany. And I did special duty in Munich for, what did we do that for? I think we—I don't remember. I think it was something like—to strengthen the troops there, but I'm not sure if that was—if that’s correct. And we—our unit went to Berlin. That was to strengthen the troops there, for sure. That was when it was still an island, you know, and it had all—it was all surrounded by hostile troops. And the reason we went there is because we were threatening to overtake it and take it back. And so I went there. And we were there only for a short period of time, ninety days, I think it was. And I loved it. I loved Berlin. I loved Munich. I loved the big cities. I wish I could say––but I loved also the little town, but there were no museums, no art galleries or anything like that. So it was mostly a little bit larger than a small village. It was kind of a small town and very traditional and I loved looking at that. They had what they call “honey buckets.” I don't know if you know what a honey bucket is. That's a fertilizer. They made the fertilizer from cow dung and you could smell it from a mile away. (laughter) And they’d be driving down the road, when we were going on the road. And so I'd go (dog barks) I say more like this. And they—and everybody goes, “oh, here come the honey buckets.” (laughter) And so that was something I won't forget. (laughter) Because here, you go out in the country, you don't smell it. It's already processed fertilizer. Or in your plants, it's already processed. You don't smell that anyway. But that was something that––the architecture was beautiful. The castles were gorgeous. The landscape were gorgeous. It's a beautiful country. \n\nThe thing that struck me the most about Germany and its people, cleanliness. Cleanliness was so amazing. You walked down the street, you could eat off of those streets practically. (laughter) There was no papers, no litter, nothing. Everything was picked up, everything was—plants and things were trimmed, and cleaned and it looked like a fairy tale land, you know. And that wasn't just where I was. It was everywhere we went. Because we went on maneuvers and went through—all throughout the country, patrolling the Czechoslovakian border. I mean, just everywhere. And we saw—I saw the people. Very clean. Not like here. The people were spotless. Just very beautiful, basically. You did have to be good looking, but your cleanliness, the way they dressed, the way they—the whole, everything—the way they did their, you know, groomed themselves, everything. Everything was very, very beautiful. The fashion was very beautiful at that time. I think they're more relaxed now. I think they wear the blue jeans, just like we do here. (laughter) But at that time, it was very different from here. What I saw here. And so I was very struck and I admired the organization that they had, the levels of intelligence that they had. Because I noticed that when I talked to them, with them. And I remembered that New Braunfels here was very hostile. You couldn't go in there, because of the hostility. And I compared it to what I was seeing over there. And I said, “What's the difference? Why is it like that?” And at that time, I was not politicized. I didn't know. And so I just kind of put it in the back of my head and I said, “Okay, we'll see. We'll see down there, we'll see something comes up where it allows me to figure it out, or I'll run into information that allows me to figure it out.” \n\nAnd came back. And I was discharged at—in New York. And I went around to the museums and all of that. Yay! I was even thinking about staying there, you know, staying in New York but I didn't like (laughs) societies in New York. They were very degenerate. I mean that's the best way to put it. Yeah. And I'm trying to be careful about what I say. Because I don't want to be insulting and offensive to the people of New York because I love New York. But I did see the changes in society that dealt with disintegration. Maybe that's a way to say it. Better––here, also in San Antonio—everywhere in the United States and probably in Europe now at this point because of the mixtures of beliefs that are occurring through migration. And so, just like here. \n\nAnd from there, I came back home. And it was right in the same rate hole that I was. And being in the military didn’t do—nobody did anything for you. You asked for help. And the VA [Department of Veterans Affairs] was not helping at that time. They were still highly, highly right wing. The doctors and everybody just said, you know, move along. And so, I was kind of lost. I did have my GI Bill. My parents didn't help me and couldn't help me because of the poverty. They couldn't pay for school. I couldn't pay for it. I had the VA [referring to the GI Bill], but didn't pay for everything and they didn't pay for my living expenses. \n\nAnd so—I took, I said, okay, if nothing, I'm going to take one class to try to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=600.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I went and started taking, you know, basically what I had to take. Oh, they wanted me— because I didn't have a high school education—I wanted to take the GED [General Education Diploma] to be able to get started. And I—the counselor there, that was in charge of that, says, “Well, you have to take about ten classes,” and then this.  I said, “No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to do that.” Because I've read a lot, you know, I read a lot in different areas. I figured if I'm not going to have a high school education, I better know something. So I read science, history, I read about art, just a whole variety of subjects. What I do is I close my eyes, go to the library, close my eyes, pick a book, pull it out. Oh, that sounds like hard. Okay, I'll read it anyway. (laughter) Sometimes I couldn't read them, but I still started trying to work my way through. That's kind of how I challenged myself to engage in material that I didn't—that I wasn’t comfortable with. I wanted to get out of my comfort zone. And so, that's kind of how, when I couldn't handle the stuff and I wasn't learning anything, and I go to my comfort zone and try something different that's just outside of it that I felt that I could understand. And I pulled that out and I read that. And so, when I was in college—and so I took the test without taking the classes. He said, “If you fail this, I'm not going to allow you to take the classes.” \n\nUNIDENTIFIED: Wow.\n\nREYES: That's what you dealt with at that time. I says, “I'm going to pass it.” I told him, “I'm going to pass it. I know a lot of stuff.” I had to tell him that. I know a lot of stuff and I feel confident that I'm able to pass it. I got a very high mark. Pass it. He looked at it in disbelief. And then just in sheepish way, filled out the paperwork for me to get the document and I went on. \n\nAnd so I started at SAC [San Antonio College]. Took my classes. Took an art class with a guy—he was a chairman there. His name was Mel Casas. He's been there a long, long time. I don't remember what year that was, but it was probably around ‘66, ‘67. It was probably near the seventies, somewhere near there below. Give or take a few years. And I asked him, after I was halfway through the course, “Do you think that I have it to become an artist?” He said, “Yes, you've got it.” And so he's the one that, because of that, I was able to study art and become an artist. \n\nEven though at the McNay Museum, I haven't talked about that, when I was over there, at that school, they had artists that came in from all over the world. I studied with one of them, I think it was the first one. His name was Theodoros Stamos. You probably don't know who he is, but he was one of the original abstract expressionists. And he was within that group called The Irascibles. And, they did an article about them in Life Magazine at that time. And his painting and a bunch of the others, the ones that everybody tries to collect now. And I saw it, and I was stunned, because I didn't like abstract art, but I was stunned by how much I liked it. I said, “I don’t believe this.” And so I kept looking at it and looking at it, you know, over a period of time. And then I found out later on that he was coming to teach a course there. I said, “Oh, I wish I had the money to be able to study with him.” And, you know, I told my teacher that, I talked to Thomas. I told him how I felt about it. And he said, “Wait a minute, let me go talk to him.” So he went and told him that I was working for him as a monitor. Monitors were the cleanup. I was a janitor, essentially. After the classes, I'd pick up all the—I’d sweep and throw the trash around, and get all the easels and stack them neatly in an area so that the classroom was open for the next class to do their work. So I was the cleanup guy. And so he arranged for me to become the janitor","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=1200.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for that class in exchange for taking the class, which is what I did with Thomas. And they agreed. And I couldn't believe it. \n\nDENNEY: Would you say that your time at SAC is when you started considering yourself an artist? \n\nREYES: I think that it helped. I think that it helped. I think that it also helped when I studied with Thomas. And I studied with others at Jay Yonkers. There was one from the British Isles. Oh, I can't think of his name. Very prominent in Europe. I am getting a little––\n\nSCHNUR: That’s okay. When you were at the San Antonio Art Institute, did that occur after you came back from your military service or—?\n\nREYES: Before. \n\nSCHNUR: Before. Okay, okay.\n\nREYES: And, so that gave me some preparation when I started going to SAC. I already had an idea. I knew a way of how to paint and I knew some of the basics. I'd gotten to the point where at the McNay—at the San Antonio Art Institute, to be able to paint photorealist, where you could almost touch and bring thing—objects out. I did one piece like that and my instructor, Mr. Thomas, says, “No, no, no, no. This is not correct.” Because it's not the style at the time. It was abstraction. So got up—he said, “You want me to show you what the correct way is?” Yeah. So he got a big brush, poured out some black paint, mixed it in, and started outlining everything. He says, “Okay, this is how you change from there to here. This is not finished, but this is how you move away.” And of course, everybody in class was shocked with what he did. But I said, “Okay, he's here to teach me. I'm here to learn.” (laughter) Because I had worked very hard at it. He says, “Take it that way.” And so I did. \n\nAnd it helped me, because when I was with Stamos, it allowed me to move away from replication to creativity. And I didn't know what I was doing; I was doing it intuitively. And it is a way to know. But I know that I knew how that could work. And so I was perfectly fit into the class. And when they did critiques, he did critique on my work, Stamos did, and he liked my work. I said, “Oh, yeah, okay.” And so that gave me a lot of encouragement. So by the time I was over in high school, I took classes with Stamos, I mean, with Mel Casas, Frank Hein, [Mark] Pritchett, who was a sculpture instructor. Hein was a painter. One that taught crafts like ceramics and jewelry, Engel. And I took those classes as well. Some of the art historians that I don't remember, they were ladies. They were not very friendly. They distorted the history. \n\nAnd the curious thing is that after that, I went to Trinity. And I was taking courses at Trinity and SAC at the same time in my first year. And it was a big head of load. But it was art. And I could handle that load, because I was used to working day and night. I'd just—I’d stop to eat, or eat when I was working, anyway. And so there was that high work ethic that I had. That's what allowed me to do that. I didn't do it anymore, because it was academic courses. And I had to spend a lot of time reading and researching. And not anywhere, I thought, I just—I had a lot of preparation from the San Antonio Art Institute that I could transfer over into Trinity, as well as SAC. And I started taking courses at Trinity with Stoker and Thomas. And no, Thomas was not there, I don't think. Stoker, the other one that I liked a lot. Redman or—oh, what was his name? [Robert “Bob”] Tiemann.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=1500.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he was one of the ones that kept up (cellphone rings) with the current trends in art. Somebody in San Antonio is calling me. (laughter) You want to check it? \n\nMRS. REYES: No. \n\nSCHNUR: He kept up with the current trends in art—? \n\nREYES: Yeah, he was up there. He knew what things were about, like what I studied with these other global painters. And, but he didn't teach very much. He started to class and then walked off. You know, you'd spend about fifteen, twenty minutes and walk off. And so we didn't get much of a chance to—I didn't get much of a chance to really address a lot of the issues that I was curious about being addressed in art that I found through the art magazines, like Art News, Art International, and on and on and on. And that were around at that time. And, but I saw his work, and I knew he was dealing with things that I did not understand and that I liked. And when I studied with Stamos, I saw things that I couldn't reconcile with what he said and what he did. I couldn't find the connection between the two. \n\nAnd so that—my time at Trinity was very—how shall I say it? I don't know what the words are to express it. In art, it wasn't as it should have been. And in other classes, some of the classes helped, geology, and some of the coursework that I needed to take was helpful. So I did do that. But what happened the most that—to help me transform my experience there was the social setting. Because there were Chicanos attending as well as others. Latinos. And the politicizing began at SAC. Because I was active in the community with the Raza Unida Party, groups that were out in the community that were involved in community building and addressing issues in the community of poverty and food and all the things that were just horrible at that time. Still are. And so that began when I was attending SAC. And that's where I met a lot of the activists that were taking classes there at the time. And then later on became very prominent. \n\nThe people that would sometimes come on campus or would meet off campus were the people from the Raza Unida Party. The Castro, the Rosie Castro. And then later, of course, we have her sons, the twins. And the founders of the Raza Unida Party, all of them. And then the ones that ran for governor, I think. I didn't meet [Ramiro “Ramsey”] Muñiz, I didn't meet him, but I knew of him. I used to hang out with Chista, who was related to Mario Cantú, they had the restaurant. Where—that's the gathering place for everybody that went there. And so, and then I'd go to some of these meetings and meet people there. There would be other meetings from people that came in from different parts of the country and Chicanos that came in from other parts of the country and shared their research with the groups over here. And that's where the learning was in that environment. The social (inaudible), not only Trinity, but outside of Trinity. And it was very important to me because that occurred, I noticed, in the white community among the artists, but it didn't happen here. I've never been able to establish that. I've tried and tried and tried. And used the gallery to invite them here, says this is a meeting place we can come to, and discuss the issues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=1800.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, they know it all. Okay, all right. So I accept that they're, if they don't want to be here, they don't want to be here. And so, I was always curious. I don’t understand why they're not. And the people that I was with were always curious also.\n\nI thought it was natural among artists. At that time, it was. Among this group, something has happened. And I'm not sure if it's happened in the schools where their curiosity has been shut down. And when you hear them talk, it shows. It shows. Because they can't move laterally. They can only move up and down. In terms of depth and the depth is shallow. And so, I found that very distressing and I tried to offer some correction. Where eventually, like if it started taking hold, I was going to start calling my friends that are all degreed and have them come in and join the discussions or make presentations. That sort of thing. One thing we started to do in exhibits—this [referring to Aanna Reyes Gallery] used to be a gallery. And when the—COVID came, I shut it down because it's too dangerous. And now I use it as a studio, as you can see. I create work. Because I sold almost everything. All the better pieces are gone. And that I made. But towards the exhibits, towards the end, we used to have poets come in and recite. So the first exhibit was for the artist and that was his chance to talk to the people because I asked them to also talk to them. Communicate. You know I said, “Explain their work. Explain what their ideas were.” That sort of thing. And they did. And that became something that excited people. And so then, I said, “OK. They're excited with that.” We did two shows. The first Friday and the last Friday. And the last Friday, we did the poets. So that people wouldn't have to come and see the same work again, you know, except for those that wanted to buy them, that didn't buy them, the first one. And the poets then created a different ambience. Where the people‚ they started kind of tickling their minds and getting them to be more curious. And so, that process was the buildup to try to then bring in the ones that really then began to show connections between things in art and things that are art, but are not identified as art. But that's yet to happen. That may still happen. I don't know. \n\nSCHNUR: So what made you want to attend Trinity, though? \n\nREYES: Because all the other schools around here were crappy. (laughter) I looked at the art departments and they were like hobbyists. There was no knowledge there. There was no evidence of the history of art in the work or they had taken things from there and moved them forward. Extrapolation from those points of view. Like you can look at—here! When I came back from graduate school, they haven't even caught up with the Impressionists. For God's sake. When you look at their work, you say, what the shit is this? This is purely—this is faculty. I'm not talking about students. Students are poor guys. They're totally neglected intellectually. The faculty were mindless. It was stupid. All that stuff that was on the walls. And I'm not criticizing the content. I’m not—I'm criticizing the artistic structure. I also criticize the content because they're pointless. They don't say anything that matters. To me, people matter and that's what my work is about. And I don't paint people. But it's about people. And so, the things that happened in the twentieth century, they still haven't caught up with it. They haven't caught up with many of the things that happened in the nineteenth century, historically. Concepts, ideas, painting techniques, all those kinds of things—styles. They just figured, okay, that's what they did then, okay, put it away. So they kind of just went through things, knew about them, but they didn't know what they were about. They were just items on a sequence. In a chronology. So that if you did a timeline, okay, that one’s here, that one’s here. But they didn't understand what they meant. And what that meaning transformed when they went to the next one. And how that meaning transformed. That's what they didn't get here. They don't get here.\n\n \n\nSCHNUR: And you're saying here","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=2100.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"generally as in San Antonio? \n\nREYES: San Antonio. Especially in San Antonio. Austin's a little bit better. Dallas is a little bit better. Very right wing. But the knowledge base in the university is a little bit better. And I'm talking about the universities. El Paso has a mixture of bicultural within the universities. And it creates a problem for them. Because they do need to have that global vision. They are trying to reach for it. But they don't have staff that can transform it sufficiently. They're making an effort. But it's not as enriched as it needs to be. \n\nSCHNUR: So out of the options at the time, Trinity seemed like the best fit for you in terms of the art department. And then when you got there, what did you find? \n\nREYES: Well, because I admired some of the people and knew some of the people, I found a comfort zone. The entire program knowledge was not exposed to me when I walked in the door. It was not exposed to me sufficiently when I left the door. And so there's a gap there. There was a gap. I sort of peeked into the faculty gallery recently, like maybe ten, twenty years ago, when the new one was set up and the stuff that was in there was student work, but it looked better. It looked better at that time. And I found it interesting. Oh, I should have come in when this was on. (laughter) And so that's encouraging. But I'm going to get to Trinity. I've got some things I need to deal with Trinity. And where was I? I don't know. \n\nSCHNUR: We were talking about you were taking classes simultaneously. At SAC and Trinity. And so I know that we wanted to hear about Trinity. \n\nREYES: Yeah, because a lot of stuff that happens at Trinity has precursor material. And so I'm trying to cover some of it. So the context is understandable. Where it isn't just being negative. \n\nSCHNUR: Right.\n\nREYES: Yes. Let me just try to figure out. I want to talk about while this is—something through me off. I guess it was the fact that—oh, yeah. I didn't understand the context of Stamos and the context of Tiemann. And when I looked at the other faculty, Stoker was more of an artist that dealt with indigenous material. The American Indian. And I wasn't that into it. But later on, I've become more and more interested in that domain because I see how important it is. I didn't see it then. Because I was in love with modernism at that time. And so these are like this. But this enriches us so much, especially in the present course that we're under. Trying to enrich our current identity. You go back there, you got a lot of stuff to tell you, a lot. And people don't understand how enormous the content is there. And there is a need to make it more contemporaneous in terms of the importance of that content that is there. We're missing it in the contemporaneous context. Because the interchange that goes on from science, from history, all these other disciplines—that needs to be included. For us especially. It's for everybody, but for us especially. Because it relates to who we are, you know. And what we need to know. That's important. What we need to know and what it means. If we don't get that, we're still fumbling around lost. We're going to have the foggiest idea about where to go to build our futures and how to build our communities. And all of that. You see Indian reservations without water, you see them without electricity, without sewers, without sufficient food. What the hell is going on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=2400.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Those are concentration camps. Call them reservations but they’re concentration camps in America. That needs to stop immediately. They've got money to throw away. But not money for them. What the—I'm going to use the appropriate language. What the fuck is going on? That's not appropriate. But neither is that. Both things are inappropriate. The language and their behavior. But that behavior descends to that level. That's why that term is appropriate. \n\nDENNEY: I also had a question just from my initial research I noticed you identified heavily with the term Chicano.\n\nREYES: Yes.\n\nDENNEY: Could you share how this term resonated with you early on and how your identity has changed throughout your life, if at all?\n\nREYES: Okay, a good question. It requires a question from you all [referring to Denney and Abreu-Torres]. Maybe you too [referring to Schnur]. (laughter) Our identity—Chicano. Me, Chicano. My question to you all is, what is your identity? \n\nDENNEY: Do you want to go first [referring to Abreu-Torres]?\n\nABREU-TORRES: Oh, I’m Puerto Rican, I’m from Puerto Rico. \n\nREYES: Okay, and you're considered Latina? \n\nABREU-TORRES: Yes.\n\nREYES: Yes. \n\nDENNEY:  I guess Latina. But my family is mixed so like we have a lot of—a lot going on I guess.\n\nREYES: Well I'm talking about countries. \n\nDENNEY: Oh, my great grandma is Mexican. \n\nREYES: Okay, then great-grandma—okay then you're Chicana. Where is the Latinx? Do you know what that is?\n\nDENNEY: I did a bit of research into it. I know it started initially with like feminist movements, kind of crossing out the “o” in Latino. So my understanding is that like when it started, people weren't speaking out loud. So, you know, it kind of doesn't work with the rest of the Spanish language. \n\nREYES: So that was the feminism. Okay. Do you know why? \n\nDENNEY: A part of it is since Spanish is such a gendered language with the “all” it assumes the masculine. And so part of it was like kind of to push back against the patriarchy, from my understanding. \n\nREYES: Yes, that is the feminist language. Do you know anything about the LGBTQ connection with it? \n\nDENNEY: Yes. I know it's also used for like a gender neutral way. \n\nREYES: Do you know what that means now? \n\nDENNEY: I'm not entirely sure. \n\nREYES: Can you extrapolate it out into today?\n\nDENNEY: More so for like people who are Latino or Latino that are non-binary might use that term? \n\nREYES: Yeah, I consider myself binary. Otherwise, I wouldn't have her [referring to Aanna Reyes]. (laughs) Okay, let me start hitting that. I don't agree with the term Latinx for Chicanos, because that is a specific identity. Latinx is an identity that does not apply to Chicanos that are binary. Now there's some that are not binary. And so—and the philosophy is designed to fudge the boundaries of the genders. You're not fully female, you're not fully male. And so you have—that's to accommodate the LGBTQ. And the feminist, when it began, looked at the issue of freedom for their gender. So they wanted to be able to vote, to be able to participate more widely in society, to have some levels of independence that would allow them to be more well-off in society, to have a better role in society. And so these are things to have, searching for equality. \n\nAnd I'm gonna pick on that term as well. And the way that the language occurs in the feminist movement is to begin to feminize men. That is how they bring in men into their role, is by taking away their masculinity. And my philosophy is no, hell no. That is something that destabilizes society in general. It makes us very vulnerable to collapse","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=2700.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as a civilization. Extremely, extremely dangerous, because the roles that are set up through the millions of years of existence, are designed to be able to to survive in the world, to be able to protect our families, to have families. I mean, all of these things that are institutions that are there, are designed by biology to be able to have a better life than being by yourself or having your identities weakened, which is what I believe it is. So the—two groups of feminism and the LGBTQ formed together to create that role so that they can have better acceptance in society, binaritism in society. So that—and I do believe that to have a role to play, the role is going to be extremely, extremely disruptive. And it's going to be one, that binaries do not understand or know how to incorporate into society. And, but in this stage that we are, not knowing how to integrate that group makes us very, very vulnerable. It's very, very dangerous as a civilization, as a culture, as a society and that if we don't resolve this quickly, and that may take me several centuries, as quickly, we may not survive it. \n\nAnd you see already authoritarianism, it doesn't come from the fudging of—genders. It doesn't come from that area. It comes from very, very binaries, extremist binary philosophies. That’s why they're willing to shoot you. That's why they're willing to starve you. That's why they're willing to put you in—babies in cages. That's why they're willing to do all the horrible things that they do to perform genocide. You know, every colored group of society in America has gone through stages of genocide. Everyone is now one that's exempt. If that comes from this, rejects from Europe, form of society here. And when you begin to look at these two things, and there's been now a pathos through the Latinx carelessness by that language terminology that has been used. We need to stop, examine it, know its meaning, and challenge it. Because if you're going to stay binary, if you are or not, then you need to defend it. Even if you're not, you still need to defend it. Because the existence of our civilization and our culture depends on finding ways to interact and to exist together. And so that's why it's important. If you don't agree, start talking to sociologists to examine culture and those that do studies in this area. You'll find out. You'll find out that this is a troubling area. \n\nDENNEY: Do you remember the first time you began identifying as Chicano? \n\nREYES: Yes. There was a program on TV. It was called Hunger in America [CBS News, 1968]. And the mayor [referring to Bexar County Commissioner A.J. Plouch] was interviewed by, I think it was NBC [the production was by CBS], one of the reporters from them. And it was a national program, broadcast. And about, I can't believe the question was sort of something like this. What's the matter with these Mexicans? Because you know, they were poor. And the mayor then said, well, they don't care about politics. And I think that's something that's what he said like and that sort of thing. That was very demeaning. And he says, “They like flowers and dancing and that sort of thing.” And there was a big uproar over that. Here I am starving, I have no jobs or it's very difficult to get a job, and when I do it doesn’t pay, you know, you're mistreated in the process of working, and no respect for us people, et cetera, et cetera. Culture has no value, and so forth. And there was a protest from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=3000.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some of the city councilmen and others that reacted to the statements from the mayor. His name was [Walter] McAllister, if I remember correctly. \n\nAnd at that point, I started asking my artist friends, Jesse Almazán and I believe Chista was one of the ones and, oh, Joe [José] Garza was the other one who was with me. And we sat around and there was one other fellow that was not in our group, but that I had met and talked to. It might have been at SAC. And then I also asked him questions and we discussed it about what do we do? And that's a big part of what my life has been like. What do we do? Do we react or not? Do we just step back and just let it die down? Because if we start creating a fuss, you know, we're going to have even harder time than we already have. And so we sat and we talked. And I tried to be someone—I mean I tried to be the person that was the advocate in the group. We said, we need to do this, we need to—and so the advocacy at that point was that looking at things we needed to have addressed, are we the people to do it? Are we—who is going to listen to us? Are we the ones that are going to be listened to? And we sat and we debate—Jesse [Almazán] worked at the military base. His job was very much in danger. Esquivel worked at the San Antonio Public Service Board. It still is and at that time was very, very conservative, very right-wing. And he was afraid for his job. And rightly so. And so that—and I was concerned for them, that they lose that and I was still a student, so I didn't have a job. And so, you know how hard it is to be a student, financially. And so at that time we discussed and he says, “Well, then the political party (inaudible) started talking publicly now before it was private.” It didn't get out into the open at that time because nobody would report it. But at that time they did because then they injected himself into the controversy. And I started hearing the term Chicano.\n\nAnd there was a lot of the people saying, No, no, no, no, I don't listen to those people. Those are crazy. Those are Chicanos, man. Those are stupid. Because of the history of Chicano, the evolution that he got from non-political to political. And so when I heard it, it reminded me of a time when I was a child. That's when it really actually happened. The present form is at that midpoint. But when I was a child, I heard my uncles, my other relatives, you know, says—they would tell me, eres Chicano, you're a Chicano. Oh, okay, I'm a Chicano. (laughter) So basically, you know, it was just, you're a boy and you over there, you're a girl. That's how they, that's what we were. And it was not political, it was cultural. It was cultural. And so, and that to me was a very fond moment because when I look from that back, all that I remember, oh, you kind of struck me and says, that's what it means. That's what it means, it means it's me. Finally, it's me. I'm not a Mexican-American. The hyphenated one. I'm not all these other terms. Latinx now, this is the one I'm by—I'm also not challenging because it isn't me, it's another group within our culture. And so that—that was when I was a child it was non-political, it was cultural. Then when the politics got dirty by the whites, then it became cultural by necessity. Then the Raza Unida party came in and started trying to educate us. So that we knew how to address with the problems that these right-wing groups were trying, which were actually elected officials starting to create for us and then the struggle became","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=3300.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"energized in contemporary terms. Does that help? \n\nDENNEY: Yes. Thank you. We touched on this a little bit, but describe to me what it was like to be at Trinity in those initial weeks and months.\n\nREYES: Well I knew that it was an affluent institution and I was not. SAC was a public institution. Trinity was a private one. The people who went to SAC were like me, you know. They didn't know where the next meal was coming from in many cases. Trinity, no such thing, you know. What's the problem? And in fact, I think one of the classmates I never met him, he was the son of one of the presidents of one of the Latin American countries and I forgot which one it is. And so people like that, they were very affluent, were there and I'm sure they're still there. And so when I saw the change in the class level, I said, “Okay.” Because I’m at that change in the upper class, I met them when I was going through the McNay, through the Art Institute. So I was already acquainted with that. So I saw—that I saw it here. Said, “Oh, this is like over there.” And so the Hispanics that I saw were pretty much wealthy Hispanics, except a few of them, like me, that got in—decided to be—to go there. And all of us had different reasons for going there. \n\nI really wanted to go to UT Austin [The University of Texas at Austin] at the time because they had a stronger program in art and art history. And I knew it, but we couldn't relocate to Austin and get jobs and be able to earn enough and all that, even though my wife is a nurse, but it's still not enough living in Austin. And so, and her family was here, my family was here. And that was a sacrifice she wasn't prepared to make at the time. And I understood that and I said, “Okay, if I go to these other places, I'm not gonna be able to go anywhere. (laughter) So it's just wasted money.” And also as far as the private school, the other one was probably—they had a stronger program—SMU [Southern Methodist University] up and down as I believe. And so those are the ones that I considered. But because I knew people there, and I was not alienated by my class level, meaning in terms of social structure, I felt comfortable there. I felt that I could understand and navigate things there. And I was only there for two years because I went in as a transfer from SAC. And so, in those two years, things happened. \n\nI'm the (inaudible) of Trinity now. I was very lucky and they were very good to me in the respect that when I wanted to do art exhibits, we—they let me show them in the theater. I forgot what it's called. \n\nSCHNUR: Ruth Taylor. \n\nABREU-TORRES: Yeah, Ruth Taylor.\n\nREYES: The theater, its called Ruth Taylor now?\n\nDENNEY: Or Laurie Auditorium?\n\nREYES: Laurie Auditorium. [narrator and interviewers talking at the same time] Yeah, and so I could put myself on schedule and then I get all the members of the art group. They were all professional artists in the community. So they were along with the faculty and everybody else. So we do Chicano art exhibits. Did it at SAC, did it here, did it in all the other institutions and church. Had the San Antonio Cultural Arts Center from the church. And they give us exhibits there. Catholic Church, I was an atheist at that time. And (laughs) I was outrageous. (laughter) I'll tell you about it a little bit later. And so we—I did the exhibits. And so they allowed me to do exhibits because I—the people that were there, they were not educated, but they were active and professional servants. And so we had the exhibits. And we did several. One of them was where —the—I think it was in the, in the—what do they call that? Where they slaughtered the cattle and all that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=3600.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What do they call that? Do you know? I don't know any about cattle. (laughter)\n\nSCHNUR: Slaughterhouse? (laughs)\n\nREYES:  Yeah, it was a slaughterhouse. \n\nABREU-TORRES: Like a matadero?\n\nREYES: Yeah, exactly. I don't remember how they call it in English. It has a name. The livestock or something like that. I forgot what it's called. \n\nSCHNUR: Oh, the stockyards. \n\nREYES: Stockyards, there you go. Yeah. They had done some inappropriate things that were bad language. Pretty much like what I used—and towards Hispanics. And I got the group and we said, Let's go and do a protest there, on that and address it and get the press and so forth. And we did. And then the—they looked like ranchmen or cat—probably were people that had ranches and cattle and all that sort of thing. And maybe even farmers that had cattle. We're there and then they were all ridiculing us, you know, and doing the cowboy thing “ahahaha” and that sort of thing. And we had a jolly good time. Throwing insults at us. And we—I saw it and was very impressed with it and I decided to do some drawings of it and did some small works and showed one of them along with some other abstract things and other things that I did. Much like I do here. Figured it was what I was not figuring. And did a drawing of their protest and I tried to remember when I was looking at them, what it looked like. I didn't take photos. I did look at them and created the atmosphere that was there. And we put that up on exhibit and it opened up. And people came, saw the exhibit. It was all very nice. And then about, I don't know, I think it was maybe a week later or so. Give or take time. A week or days later. Some artworks were stolen. One by Joe Esquivel. There was about two or three. Mine was stolen. That one was stolen. They might have found that one offensive. So the right one is. Because it documented them. That's the reason it is to document. And that's why I do a lot of things that I do. It's to document. \n\nAnd so the—I went into the president's office. Requested an appointment. And they wanted to—I wanted to have a meeting with him to deal with having the insurance covered. The losses. And so there was a little old lady that sat at the front desk. I think she was something like a clerk or secretary or something like that. I don't know what her status was. But she received you and then talked to the president and then made arrangements of whether yes or no you could see him. At that time we had what we called guest members in the Con Safo and it had professional people. Doctors, we had a lawyer, we had university professors and PhD’s that also like—that had staffs that were very important. Like Tomás Rivera is one of our members and senator Joe Bernal, like that. I mean that was our muscle. And so I asked to get an appointment and the lady went in and got us an appointment and so it was like two or three weeks away. I said, “Ah okay.” We went to class. Then about two or three days later we got pulled out of class to go see the president. And there was one other student that was a member of our group, Santos Martínez. And they said, Hey man come on, just in case something gets rough I'll have somebody else to back me up. At least as a witness. Nothing else. And so I went, and the lady was there and showed her the note that I was pulled out of class to come to the office. Then she started on a diatribe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=3900.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"“What do you think you are?” You know—you know how it goes. I'm sure you've experienced it. And she went on trying to scold me, scold me—claiming. Making a claim for the lost property. And I just let her have her say because I was going to have my say afterwards. And there was a carpenter there doing repairs or something. And there was us—two or four, six people—carpenter, secretary. Carpenter, secretary. Oh there's four of us. Santos and I.\n\nAnd when she finished, I addressed her and I said, “Okay let me respond to what you're saying.” And I started rebutting what she said. Then the carpenter came up to me and says, “If you say another word I'm going to hit you with a hammer.” And I said, “Do you intend to use this?” He says, “Yes, I do. I'll do whatever I need to do.” I said, “So you are actually going to use it?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “Do you intend to support his behavior?” She says, “I certainly do.” And I said, “Are you sure that you are going to do that?” “Yes, I will.” Okay it was something like that. I'm paraphrasing. I said, “Okay I know what to do.” I did. He says, “We have an attorney in our group and we're going to address this and your university president is not going to be pleased. Because not only do I have that, I have a network of support from the community. I have members of the Raza Unida Party who support us, I have elected officials, and we have community leaders. You're not going to believe what's going to happen here. So either you behave yourselves or we're going to go in or we're going to leave. And if we leave you're not going to be pleased.” I left because they wouldn't let us in after we had made an appointment. \n\nAnd then we—I went to talk to one of the professors who was a friend of mine. I treated him as a friend that I admired very, very much. A hard history professor. [Glen] Patton was his name. And he graduated from Michigan. And he is the one that inspired me to try to go there. And I asked him, “What should I do? Here's what I have.” And he says, “Let's try to get the temperature to lower down and give them an opportunity to act in the appropriate way.” And I said, “Okay.” I said, “Well how will he know if she doesn't let the data go through?” And he said, “Have someone call him.” I says, “Okay. I'll have the lawyer call him because then it has a double intent on there. Cause he has—one is us, he's a member of us or legal action may come afterwards.” And he—the lawyer then advises to go ahead and send him a message. And say that I am, you know, here and I'm ready to assist if my help is needed. Let's keep it low. Okay. All right. That happened. The university president called me immediately into the office. And I told him about her behavior and the carpenter's behavior. And he says, “I do want that addressed.” He says, “I don't want this going on.” When you call me, when I was called, pulled out of class, I missed my class, only to be scolded by someone that has none—issue—that was none of her business. She has no business in this, affair. I'm a student. You're the president. You're in charge of dealing with the insurances. My members that are professional people had to make the proper stolen (inaudible)—including me asking for them to be reimbursed. And they were putting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=4200.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"pressure on me. They said, “Where?” To come and have this addressed and it wasn't being addressed. And so I came in on business, on the initial contact. After that I was scolded for being on business and when she had her diatribe, I tried to rebut her incorrect positions and information. And then the carpenter jumped in, threatened me physically, with a hammer. He weaponized the hammer. And I want to also make sure this never happens to me and Santos or anyone else of any color, anybody. Any student, even staff members. This should never happen in a university. What the hell kind of operation are you running here? What are you guys doing? Don't you monitor these people? No, if we needed to tell you, if we can't get to you, don't you have a system that allows us to do that? What's going on? What needs to happen here? “Well, we got a letter of reprimand” he says, “And it's going to affect her promotion.” Big deal. I wouldn't be pretty much stuck in that, but it got addressed. Whenever I walked in, she was very polite and they got rid of the carpenter. He said, “He's not going to work here anymore. He's a contractor, so they're not going to use him anymore.” So at least that's what I understood. They may still use him. He may still be out there with a hammer. (laughter) Anyway, and I said to them, “This is not the last you're going to hear.” It wasn't. \n\nThey had a recruiting session, a separate session—Trinity had as a separate recruiting session—from the federal government, the National Labor Relations Board that had taken stands against Cesar Chavez and of course, we were like this with that organization. And they started recruiting students and they wanted some Hispanic students to be able, I guess, to be able to do translations and all that—to apply. And they started sending out notice, you know, I think it was school paper or something like that. And I saw it. And I said, “Hey, look at this!” And some of them didn't know. I said, “This is the National Labor Relations Board. They're the ones that are working against Cesar Chavez right now, and some of the issues dealing with how they treated the farm workers, you know, the way provisions and the—how they create the facilities for them to work in and that sort of thing, you know. You know, bathe and sleep and having structures for that sort of thing. And so forth.” And so—they've taken a stand against improving these issues—also the pay. Sometimes they would get the farm workers to come in, harvest the crops, then report them to the immigration. They come in, round them all up, report them, but not pay them before they were shipped out. This is, you know, in conjunction with the—these are the things they wanted the National Labor Relations Board to address, and they refused. And that's what we were then dealing with. There were other issues as well that they were addressing—the farm workers union was addressing, but we rested on those. And I got the students together. We went and got poster boards and little sticks and stapled them onto the sticks and made the protest against the National Labor Relations Board. And we started (imitates chanting), you know, up on the front of the campus. And so whenever drivers would come in to visit the campus, we'd hold up our things and cheer and everything. And then the word got out, by phone. I guess some of the students called some of the people out in the community. And they wouldn’t—they came on into the campus, but then they got escorted out. And so they stayed on the out—the perimeter of the campus, the campus, and then started protesting as well. And so then by the end of the day, the National Labor Relations Board","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=4500.0,4800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"left. I don't know what they got or if they got anything. But when we tried to put this together at the beginning, some of the students said, What, no no, don't do this, man, I want to apply. Well, I says, “Go and apply, man. If you're not going to stand by Cesar Chavez, go with them. That's what you are. Go. You know, we don't need you. We got plenty.” And so I said, “You ought to be ashamed of yourself too.” (laughs) And so the—and then the other incident was oh—when everything was closed down and everything wrapped up, I got into the car and several people—I was going home then— asked me for a ride to downtown, so (inaudible) to catch a bus home from there. And I said, “Okay.” And so I gave them a ride and I was listening to the Trinity Station and one of the DJs started saying, we have gotten the Trinity's first protest. And then they went, Yay! (laughter) And the other thing he said, “Right on.” That can't be at that time. And so everybody went, Yay! \n\nDENNEY: Could you tell me a bit more about the response from Trinity University from the protests? \n\nREYES:  We don't know. But the students seem to be, my impression was the students seem to be, okay. (laughter) Yeah. There was like a handful that joined us. But for the most part, they just went to their classes and back and forth, that sort of thing. It wasn't what you would call overwhelming. But amongst the Hispanics, that was overwhelming for the most part, except for the ones that wanted to apply for a job. And so the response from the students was pretty much institutional; they were following the institutional mindset. And so, they probably didn't want to get into trouble and lose the ability to get recommendations. I mean, you have all of that hanging over your head. Imagine me getting a recommendation with all of these things happening. That would be positive, not just a printout type of thing. And so, you know, when you begin to speak for change, for improvement, for correction of issues, you will get consequences. And this is one of the things we address constantly, or the consequences we're going to have to face, going to be so harmful, we're going to be totally unable to function and to assist. So you face that at that time. You're going to face that now. You guys are going to face it now. \n\nBecause it's getting back to that extremist level. And it's getting to that violent level. So those are two of the ingredients that you're getting there. And then when it starts coming, and it's already started, into the economic level, then the oppression process begins. Suppression and oppression begins. And then that is what you are now also facing—everybody. Because if you're not there doing that wrong work, and you're neutral or an opponent. The opponents are going to get it first, the neutrals will get it next, because they're going to see you as part of them. The middle range people, the—you have the right wing, the middle—the left wing, but you have what you call the moderates. In Texas, the moderates are not moderate. Those are highly—they’re—if the moderate (inaudible), they're very far to the right. Let's put it that way. Maybe even more over the line. Where the actual right might. So that they’re—when they talk about moderates, they're not moderates. Even in the country where you see that Democrat, that votes Republican all the time. He's not a moderate. How would you call that a moderate? You'd have things on this side and things on this side, maybe somewhere close to the middle, some range, but all the way to the right? No. No. He voted Democrat because he'd be thrown out of the party if he didn't. That's the only reason he did that. So, you know, understanding what you're looking at in politics is crucial, because that's reality. They're the ones that are going to hurt you, and you don't know it. You do need to know it. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=4800.0,5100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DENNEY: Did you live near campus? And if so, what was it like being a town student at a university that was designed for on-campus residency? \n\nREYES: I lived just down the street. I don't live there now, but you know where Jerry's Artarama is? \n\nDENNEY: Yes, yes.  \n\nREYES: Okay. If you go down, there's a little neighborhood there. It's a very nice neighborhood. Uh, no, I didn't live there. I lived in Rayburn [Drive], right? Is that right? Yes. Okay, she's nodding yes. My wife is nodding yes. (laughter) In case they ask, who was she? (laughter) We lived on the Southside, right by [SW] Military Drive. And so going there was going from one end of town to the other. That's the first time I had to do that, because when I went to (inaudible) it's just a slightly from my house to the McNay. I lived right by Centeno. And you know where it is by New Braunfels [Avenue] and Austin Highway. I would take the bus and go all the way over there. And after class, my parents were so poor, they couldn't give me money for bus fare. So I walked twenty miles back to my house with all supplies in hand. That's what I had to do. Did I want to learn art? About art? Yes. Yes. Nothing would stop me. I would do anything and everything I could to learn about it. Anyway, that's how far things are in my life. Then uh—what was the next question? \n\nDENNEY: What was it like being a town student at a university that was designed for on-campus residency? \n\nREYES: I had not lived on campus in the first institutions, McNay, SAC, or Trinity. And the only time I lived on—not campus, but on-campus housing. And it was sort of within groups—parts of the university. That's the only time I lived on campus. And I was on top of the hill, and the campus was down there, so it was a nice—I wish I would drive it, but it was—you could almost at a certain point see a campus down there. The scene was beautiful. The architecture, they had actual artworks on the campus, just like Trinity does, or did— do they still have it in Barbara Hepworth? \n\nABREU-TORRES: Yes. \n\nDENNEY: Yeah, \n\nSCHNUR: Mhm. \n\nREYES: I don't know if they had—secure them so they could not be damaged. \n\nABREU-TORRES: No. \n\nSCHNUR: No. \n\nDENNEY:  Yeah, no. (laughter)\n\nREYES: Well what a coincidence, very important art. (laughter)\n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. \n\nREYES: And but no, that's the only time I lived on campus. Well, the only other time I lived on campus—a kind of campus. This is way out. I was a public school teacher for a time. When I graduated and got a teaching certification, and when I didn't like the education—higher education, I went to public school and I stayed at Harlandale High School. And then from there, I uh—so and I used to go to university to study for advanced placement art, and that is for students that are gifted—got college credit at the high school level. And I went to a program that was held at the Art Institute of Chicago and I think they called it the Institute for Contemporary Art. And it was within that—it's a separate program, but within it, is one of the separate programs at the Art Institute. And they have facilities there, and one of them—they had like these huge buildings that were empty, and then they gave us a floor, and all of us lived there. And then the classes were held in another room. And they had a little cafeteria that we could go eat. And so, man, that was amazing, because they imported instructors from around the world. The one that was an art history instructor was one of the curators at the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=5100.0,5400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. \n\nSo these were huge, huge, persons that in the arts that were there. It opened my mind up, because there were things that I could not connect the meanings, like I always keep going in terms of the meanings. And there were things in contemporary art that violated the principles that were used to create art. They were doing things that were considered “not art”. And I couldn't find the connection that got you over that hump. When I asked the questions—and I'll give you examples so you can see what the question was, I said, “If y—the way of making art is by making an object that is an object of contemplation, you know, that's one of the purposes of it and that also it is an object of uh—in many cases, of aesthetic significance. And so, but there are different kinds of objects, for example, that are contemplative and then there are objects that are objects of interation that are also considered art. And so there's a difference between the two.” \n\nLike, for example, in the object of contemplation, or the painting, drawing, sculpture, et cetera, prints, all that, that reaches that level. But when you look at, say, for example, a crucifix, okay, that's an object of contemplation, but more correctly, it is an object of veneration. Although you can still contemplate with the crucifix. And—and so that the objects that are in that realm are called, basically, sacred, or considered sacred. And so you have Buddhas, you have all these other religions that have their objects of veneration, and that are considered sacred. And—but there's a problem. There are also these objects, in many cases, that are not considered art, like in the crafts, like—ceramics, sometimes that's considered art, but in many cases not. Jewelry making, basket-weaving that sort of thing. So those are considered to be more utilitarian. Utilitarian objects are not art. This is what traditionally has been said. And so then I said, “If you take the crucifix of the wall, take a nail, put it on the wall, and hammer the nail in with the crucifixion, what has happened here?” You've turned the sacred into a utilitarian object. You've taken art and converted it into a utilitarian object. Now can you take the hammer and reverse the process? And this is what I'm seeing in some of these arts—styles in art. The presenter, he was brilliant, he was brilliant. He stood back and thought, and thought, because he agreed with me that that was the—that was the principles that were used in art history, and criticism, to identify the work that's being studied. And they—he stood back and thought, and thought, and says, “Okay, I've got the answer.” He connected it for me. Because it already had been connected, because it was in magazines, journals, and all that sort of stuff. And the answer was, because I can. So the prin—the rules that you got in art, that you can't do this, or that when it doesn't do this, it's not art. Now if you do this, it converts it to art. Oh, that means anything can be—which is what the two movements that impacted me the most—one of them was the Surrealists—opened the doors up because they began to do that process. \n\nI don't know if you know very much about surrealism, but their philosophy","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=5400.0,5700.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is transitional when you begin to look at it. Transitional, totally. And the other one that began to transform me—that still affects me through today—were the impressionists. Because at that time period, color study began, and then the Bauhaus clarified it—what the impressionists were doing for future generations, for the contemporary. Because even the Bauhaus created an academy or a school where they began to use a curriculum that artists invented, not educators—artists created that teaches how to make art. So you study each element and principle in terms of how—what it does, what it is and what it does. In education, it's just a category that you just read off the definitions, and you don't show how it works or what it means. Because they're educators and the ones that evaluate you are educators. So when you try to do art, teach art, you're not allowed to, because it doesn't follow education principles. Big mistake. Big mistake. Anyway, where was I? Did you need to do? \n\nMRS. REYES: (inaudible)\n\nREYES: If you need to, go ahead and go. \n\nMRS. REYES: Okay.\n\nREYES: Yeah, and then I'll call you. \n\nMRS. REYES: No, I’ll wait. \n\nREYES: Okay. Thank you. \n\nDENNEY: Okay, you've talked about this before, but I was wondering, like overall, what was your general sense of belonging? At Trinity? I know you liked the art department, but overall, I guess. \n\nREYES: (sighs) I think amongst my friends—I had friends. Within the institution, you provided the services. As an institution—of learning—they did quite get there in terms of making better scholars, more responsible citizens. Forcing the—I think forcing is an appropriate term—forcing the administrators to be more accountable to their mission and having that mission be more reflective of the needs of society and their communities that they serve. There's issues there. There's issues. You cannot—you cannot be a distinguished university without having something to distinguish you. Michigan has that. I can tell you that. Man, oh man. What a university. Libraries (sighs). They have a museum there—art museum, with a collection that is wonderful. They have—they bring in exhibits that are out of their own collection. Come to the university all the time. And there are learned, learned exhibits. Some of the museums that do learned exhibits here in Texas, I—that I believe is learned, are the Menil [The Menil Collection] in Houston. Wonderful. The one in Fort Worth is the, what's the name of the one in Fort Worth? There's several in there. I can't think of it right now. It's a private museum, not a public one. But it's—is it Richardson? No. Huh? \n\nMRS. REYES: Rice?\n\nREYES: What did she say? \n\nDENNEY: Rice.\n\nABREU-TORRES: Rice. \n\nREYES: No, no, that's in Houston, I’m talking about Fort Worth. \n\nMRS REYES: Oh I don’t—.\n\nREYES: It's the one where that Ernst [Max Ernst]—that big metal sculpture. \n\nMRS. REYES: Yeah.\n\nREYES: Yeah no, okay. Anyway, they are a small one, but man are they good. They really, really got their art history right and their collection is right, just like the Menil. The one that's more like a state or a public university in Houston is the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, much like what SAMA [San Antonio Museum of Art] is but it’s smaller. SAMA is very small. Its collection is—needs to be much broader, deeper. And then—I'll stop talking about museums.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=5700.0,6000.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DENNEY: That’s okay. Were there a lot of Chicano students when you attended Trinity? \n\nREYES: No. I'd say we were—this is just what I can remember. I don't know how it varies within departments because probably education, a lot of them went—the ones that came, went into teaching. In art, those of us that want to become artists, but didn't want—if you're gonna pay as much for the Catholic universities and they didn't have the staffing that they needed, you might as well go over here because the staffing was better. Although not exemplary. The—I don't know, I that guess maybe I'll rest on that. (phone ringing)\n\nDENNEY: Thank you. Did you participate in any student organizations and if so, which ones? \n\nREYES: Not at Trinity. In SAC, I did participate in MEChA [Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán]. And I started in a unit in Trinity, but they were all too scared. They just felt they were gonna get reprisals and attacks and that sort of things and no, no. We don't have enough of us here to protect ourselves. So they said, Let's wait. I said, “Okay.” And I meant no. \n\nSCHNUR: Was that talking with administration? Trying to get an official organization or talking to other students? \n\nREYES: I think that it was—again, the institutionally, which would include the administration and faculty and institutionality, the philosophy was not very—how shall we say—it did not provide adaptations to the students and so they weren't there yet to be able to address the changes that we were going to start to put in place. I so, I don't think that they were ready for us. \n\nSCHNUR: You attended from 1970 to 1972? \n\nREYES: Let’s see, I think it was ‘74 wasn’t it, so two years back, yes. Because my ring—graduation ring says ‘74 when I graduated, ‘75 [referring to the University of Michigan], but it was a year after. And so, It was two years in ‘74 and ‘73—'74 is probably what it was. Because when I graduated then, they did all the graduates (inaudible) the following year. \n\nSCHNUR: Okay, because the United Farm Workers' Strike was a few years earlier than that, though. \n\nREYES: At Trinity? It must have been a separate one. Was it us? I guess that one was. \n\nSCHNUR: Yea so we found some articles in the student newspaper and there's been mentions of Con Safo exhibits between the time period of ‘70 and ‘72 at Trinity, in addition to the protest that you held. And also, there was a partnership for at least one exhibit with the Trinity Association of Chicano Students, which started in 1970. And so I think we were trying to see if you had any remembrances of working with that student organization. \n\nREYES: No. They might have joined us all, because we were the most active. They had other organizations, but they were genteel, you know, and did not wish to offend or wanted to ensure acceptability, institutionally as well as socially with other students. We had a mission to accomplish and we knew that it was bigger than us and that we really couldn't worry about acceptability or politeness or gentility and all that stuff. We just said, you know, We'll be appropriate, we'll be proper, we'll be respectful and we will respect their differences. But if we were challenged by the validity of what we were doing or what we believed, then we will respond, you know, and clarify and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=6000.0,6300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ensure that we were able to rebut mistakes that were—we made. Misinterpretations. Usually when you address misinterpretations, it makes people angry. People are not easygoing about that. Even though you're trying to be as polite and respectful as possible, but then it starts elevating the temperature. In some cases very quickly. And when that happens, then we have to be prepared for that as well. It still happens. It's terrible nowadays. Okay. Yes. \n\nDENNEY: Thank you. (Reyes laughs) Do you remember taking any courses from or interacting with any Chicano or Latino faculty or staff during your time at Trinity? \n\nREYES: I don't think that existed then. Usually—and I haven't talked about this—but usually the Hispanics that are found within these kind of institutions are not the same as the ones that you find within our community. And this is a political thing, I'll just address it briefly, I'll address it briefly. Yeah. You have the right and left wing in the center. Usually it's the one, Chicanos— Hispanics in the center that are in the middle class and up to the—up into the lower middle class, upper class, have a different identity and they call themselves Mexican Americans. They're the half Indians. Because they are the ones that vote Republican. You know, they tend to be conservative. They tend to be the friends of those that attack us. And so that—and they want that air of respectability. I think you can sort of see how they behave. And the first thing they do when they see a Chicano, it's very obvious, those people are not good class people. It was a low class. Get away from them. That's what they, I've seen it happen at a book fair that included Chicano literature. And they were addressing the professors that way. Because they had beards and mustaches and that sort of thing. Long hair. And so they were classing them, the middle class and they may have been upper class as well as the people that were not acceptable and they wanted acceptability. And so to them, the only acceptability that exists in this world for them is the right wing. They're affluent, they're well dressed, they have their cars and homes, they go to universities and they study, they're leaders in society. This is respectability. These Chicano, who the hell are they? Because they didn't realize that these are now the new leaders in the Hispanic community. These are the ones that are now starting to lead in the institutions of learning, of business, and all these other areas. And those that study the economy, society, et cetera, these are the new Chicano's. And so, but they didn't recognize them. They were these other ones. And socially, even if you saw that you were that, socially they were still not acceptable. Even if you're a medical doctor, you're still not acceptable. Because we had doctors in the family and they also talked about that. That certain doctors—well white doctors—did not accept minority doctors. So class didn't matter. He was a multi-millionaire. (inaudible) And so poverty was not the issue. Now that we see that, what is? Racism, it's the issue. And when racism has what? Poverty. Oppression. Oppressed. Suppressed. Exclusion. Exclusion is a special process that they use where you're not eligible to join sororities and fraternities and all those. If you do, you get special treatment. I never joined any of those damn things. We created our own thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=6300.0,6600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We called it La Raza. It was us, our people, in Michigan. We didn't form clubs. We said, Man, hell no. We're not going to follow that model. We're going to follow our model. And we're going to do one that's culturally correct so we don't have to follow university rules. We'll follow our rules. And we accepted Chicanos. We identified ourselves as Chicanos, but we accepted Puerto Rican. We had from other countries as well that came and joined us. Not all of them joined us because we were a special brand of politics—very leftist—that made them very nervous. Maybe from their homeland that they were part of the right. And so they found it difficult to be comfortable because of the things that we studied and discussed and analyzed. And then tried to find strategies on how to address, how to be able to educate our own, but also educate those that are around us so they are not afraid of us. And so it's always that process. I certainly don't want to stop there. \n\nDENNEY: Could you tell me a bit about your relationship, if you had one, with Tomás Rivera? \n\nREYES: Yes. This is part of the answer to this question. And it's right here. There's a painter that I like very much. He's a concert painter. He's dead now and he wrote art history as well as painted. His name is Robert Motherwell. He is perhaps one of the most significant painters in the world in the twentieth century. And he was an abstractionist. I never met him, but I (inaudible) did. I wish I could have met him, but I didn't. (background noise) (inaudible) All this junk, hope it didn’t get thrown away. Hope I didn’t throw it away. (loud noise) This is a painting that I'm working on now. Oh, here it is. There you are, you bad boy. Right here. Okay, I'm going to bring them. No, I'll bring it here. This way you can keep yourself intact. (pause) It's a painting. \n\nDENNEY: Oh okay, oh wow. \n\nREYES: Do you mind if I put it over here? I've been working on this for several years and changed it, and changed it, and changed it. And this will answer that question. When I—looked at one of his paintings, it's called Elegy of the Spanish Republic [Elegy to the Spanish Republic, 108]. I think something like—either “to” or “of”—one of the titles. Sort of something like that. I think it's “of,” Elegy of the Spanish Republic and that's Robert Motherwell. And he lived and worked out of New York and although he traveled around the world for his exhibits. I then was inspired by that title and decided to include a portion of the title in that painting. And I'll explain what that is. \n\nThe painting is the—out of the Cholo series. Cholo is a word in Spanish for dog. The origin of the word is Spanish word from Spain. So when the Spanish came to Mexico—I found that in a website—not a website, but a search engine from Mexico because I started searching the internet and I found this search engine and I asked the question of what is a Cholo? And they had an article—something on it. I'm not sure if it was an article or from a news—from a journal or something. But it was something in writing. That—and I don't know what the category was. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=6600.0,6900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the article said that—I'm trying to get it right. That a cholo—oh yes, I remember now. It noted that the word came from the Spanish and when they started—they brought the dogs with them from Europe. And they—played with them you know, and had their pets or whatever. And the—they noticed that the Indians, the Spanish noticed that the Indians had—dogs that also—they played with them, but they were mixed breed. And so that's where it was. The Spanish called the mixed breed dogs Cholos. That's where it was. And so that the Indians saw that—mixed breed dogs, and they were Spanish and Indian combined—mestizos. They mestizos called themselves Cholos. And down through the oral tradition, it came down to where it is now in the—it's part of the oral tradition here, I mean, in this part of the world—that Cholos are now people, which are essentially the ones who are Chicanos call themselves. Do you know what Caló is? You do, you know what Caló is?\n\nABREU-TORRES: The language of the Pachuco.\n\n \n\nREYES: Exactly. Or what I say is the language of the Chicanos. We have a language. People who hear you talk this way think you're only talking in slang. But what we are doing now is using that language as a third language. It's English, Spanish, and Cholo. Do you know where Cholo—I mean, where the Caló language came from? \n\nABREU-TORRES: It's a combination of Spanish, English, and an indigenous language too? \n\nREYES: Spanish, English, and indigenous? No, it's broader than that and it has an origin. Now I think Ruben [Cordova] is the one that told me this part of it. That it came from, yeah, Greece, part of the language. There's French also, because the French were there. There's the—of course the Nahuatl. And the English is—some of it is there. And do you know why that language was used? \n\nABREU-TORRES: In the communities to just communicate. I am not sure. \n\nREYES: Okay. You have any idea? \n\nDENNEY: No.\n\nREYES: You have any idea? Okay, what happened to the Spanish in the early twentieth century? I mean, it has happened all along, but what happens to them when they’re part—when they’re oppressed. They’re thrown in jail. Jail as in penitentiary—all the lockups. And they were punished for speaking Spanish. Were you ever punished for speaking—you were? \n\n ABREU-TORRES: No, no. \n\nREYES: No, no. My wife was. (Mrs. Reyes laughs) I was. And that process of punishment, because you had those that were the jail holders, you know, the jailers, some were, of course, white, but then they had some that were Hispanic. Those are the Mexican Americans. And (laughs) and there's a clear delineation between us and them. And at least Chicano sees that way. Yeah, the other guys, they see us that way too. We don't belong to that. And so what happens is that they needed to have a hidden code language. And so that the jailers would not understand what they were saying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=6900.0,7200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay. So what happens to these prisoners when their sentences are completed? What happens? Do you know? \n\nABREU-TORRES: They go back to society. \n\nSCHNUR: They’re released. \n\nREYES: They go back to their communities. That's how it was born. They invented it for survival and be able to communicate with one another and to have some privacy in their conversations. And then when they went back into the communities, they started speaking once each other that way to keep the kids from knowing what they're saying. Then the kids pick it up and they bring it to the other kids, and then it becomes totally infused. The language then has other origins as well that I'm learning about and I still don't have the entire—but I'm going to be using Caló in my, in my paintings as well. So then it begins to—people won't understand if I have something that will explain the painting and the work in the term. Anyway, you know where that is. So I’ve named it several times because I kept changing it. It wasn't there. It wasn't there. It wasn't there. That configuration that you see in the upper right-hand corner, do you know what that is? \n\nREYES: No? Okay. That is a representation of the sun. And I believe that it was Mayan, if I remember correctly. But I added my colors because it was in black and white. I added my colors, which is for Mexico, because (inaudible) in Mexico. And so I did red, white, and green. So it represents that. But the cholo is also the national dog of identity of Mexico. And they also have Caló in Mexico. \n\nLet me just throw this tidbit around on the Chicanos. I was looking on the internet, and I saw a program about low riders in Los Angeles. And it was this white guy doing a documentary of the Chicanos. And they were the low riders, and they, you know what they do, had their parades and fixed up their cars, and they devote their lives to doing that sort of thing. And so, and so he did that. Then there was another document that followed that on Chicanos about how there were some Japanese kids—\n\nDENNEY: Oh.\n\nREYES: You saw it? \n\nDENNEY: Yeah. (laughs)\n\nREYES: —that admired the Chicano culture and started dressing and acting and speaking like Chicanos. And then I then, I then further saw another documentary, because I started explaining, well, how far does this stuff go? It's outside the barrio, you know? And I saw that out of these Japanese kids that were there, they went to Japan and started these groupings of Chicano clothing and behaviors and they have shops that carry all the stuff that the Chicanos like and Lady of Guadalupe and all these kinds of trinkets and stuff, all that stuff that they do, and dressing and acting like Chicanos. And I think it was Tokyo. And then I saw another one, I think it was Thailand—them dressing like Chicanos as well. And there was another one. And I don't remember where it was, but it was outside the country. Oh, Mexico. It was in Mexico where they started embracing and adopting that Chicano culture. They said, I'm Mexican, but I like Chicanos, and I'm a Chicano too. And so they had these groups doing—they had the low riders, they had the tattoos, they had all that stuff. And so that—are we real? Yes, very real. Do people know that we have a broader culture than is supposed? That we're not just the subculture of Mexico? \n\nYou know, in fact, it reminds me that when I was at Trinity, that was the—that was the era of the hippie. And—and they used to say that we were—oh, I forget, it was another term that they used.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=7200.0,7500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think we're called a subculture, I think that's what it was. I said, “No, hell we're not. We're the—.” Oh yeah, I said, “The Chicano is a subculture of the broader culture of Mexico. Not—we're their hippies” Which we really look like. (laughter) Anyway the—anyway stop there and back to Trinity from this other aspect. \n\nSo I decided to do the the elegy for this painting, but previous to deciding on being—on doing an elegy, I wanted to commemorate in some way—which the elegy is a commemoration—commemorates in some way some of our members of Con Safo that have passed away. Because we're getting down close to about, just a handful of us that are still alive. But then when I saw The Elegy by Motherwell—which is just simply black shapes on a white background—it hit me, wow! That ele—the word elegy fits with the commemoration I want to do to the Con Safo members that have passed away, because that's what an elegy is anyway. And so that's what I did. And that's where part of the question that Rivera, and I'll talk about Rivera, and he's listed as the ones that Tomás Rivera, that—Do you want to take a picture of it? \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah, we can take a picture of it. Do you mind us taking a picture—?\n\nREYES: Anywhere.\n\nSCHNUR: Okay.\n\nREYES: Oh, okay.\n\nSCHNUR: Well with your painting as well, but so we can relate the document to—\n\nREYES: Oh, say that it really is related to me. Okay. You want me to do this one? \n\nSCHNUR: Oh, no, no, we can, we can take a picture of this— \n\nREYES: Okay. \n\nSCHNUR: —document and then— \n\nREYES: Let me give it to you in a cleaner background.\n\nSCHNUR: Okay. (laughs)\n\nREYES: There. \n\nDENNEY: It can wait until we’re done.\n\nSCHNUR: Yeah, we can wait until we’re done too.\n\nREYES: Okay, you want me to stand over here? \n\nSCHNUR: Oh, no, we can, we can finish up with the interview first. \n\nREYES: Okay. \n\nSCHNUR: And then—\n\nREYES: Remember to do that. \n\nSCHNUR: And then just take a picture at the end. \n\nREYES: Okay. \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. \n\nREYES: Well, I need that back because I need to show you what has been done. Tomás Rivera. Tomás Rivera was at Trinity and he knew about us doing the ruckus, you know, on campus and off campus because he was speaking at various places and we show up and—or be in discuss—he'd be in a discussion along with us and we'd be there and also add in our two cents. And, and so he kind of knew me and sort of kind of hung around with us. I looked to him as a mentor and, and saw him as a—since he was older than me and had knowledge and experience that was beyond me. And I felt that he may be able to give me some guidance on how to address certain things in my life and that I was facing. And one thing that I did ask him that never happened and because—I will take it what—I asked him if he would start an office administrative office that dealt with—and I forgot what that term is for the office. It was an administrative position that would deal with Chicano affairs. And do any of you remember what that is? Something like the Chicano advocates office, Chicano students advocate or something like that. \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. \n\nREYES: And they were available at universities across the country. And where you had a predominant—a number of Latino faculty that needed to have issues addressed for their accommodation into the university. And so, so I asked him if he would start one. And he says, “Well I'm here and I'll address those things.” But what happens when you're not here? Because then that's what I'm worried about. I'm not worried about it when you're here. But I know that I won't live forever, you won't live forever either. What can be done? You may not have been able to do it. That's probably what he's trying to tell me. And so and that is something that Trinity just need. Because of all the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=7500.0,7800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"challenges that people from all walks of life come—Latinos from all walks of life come to. Coming to the United States, living here, coming from Mexico, coming from Puerto Rico, coming from anywhere that's not here, you're going to see a monster that's there. You know, there’s—all cultures have monsters and we have our own monsters that we need to address and fix. And that institution has the monsters of the United States, the cultures of the United States that are from the immigrants from Mexi—from Europe. That stuff that came over here. And that is one thing that I wish he had done. Be me not been able to. I want to throw that out. And I would go to him and then we came—became close friends. One time he also, he would, he was working on a project from a professor at Trinity. What is his name? He was an English teacher. I can't remember his name. He may still be there for all I know. I can't remember. But the two of them got together to write for Tomás Rivera write a poetry booklet— pamphlet. And Dr. Rivera asked me if I would illustrate the book and I did. And so that is where I got a chance to work with him as well. I don't even remember the title of that thing. But it was black and white and it was a little, you know, it was just folded like this. Something like that. Did you see, have you seen it? \n\nSCHNUR: I haven't seen that one. I've seen work of yours in a different, like a literary magazine, I guess, from Trinity. And that—I think it was called The Folder and it was from either ‘71 or ‘72 where you had a few sketches and a couple—like one sketch and then I think Santos Martinez had one in there as well. \n\nREYES: Oh, it was a religious thing. Marianist or something like that? \n\nSCHNUR: No, it wasn't. It was a literary magazine out of Trinity. But they had art incorporated with poetry. \n\nREYES: Okay. Okay. \n\nSCHNUR: Did you want to ask the third to last question? [speaking to Denney] \n\nREYES: (inaudible)\n\nSCHNUR: Oh, sorry. \n\nREYES: Okay. Let me hurry up. \n\nSCHNUR: Okay. \n\nREYES: Well, that's how I decided to do this. Now I'm working on trying to figure out how to arrange the names and whose names. And if I'm not mistaken, what I've decided to do is to arrange the ones who have worked the hardest in one side of the canvas and the ones that didn't have that opportunity on the other. But there's significance on that. And I haven't quite finished deciding on that. Like, Tomás Rivera is on the top of one, which is—would be those that are the ones that went to school, because that is a very difficult process. And so that he is one of the ones that has that position. The other one that has that position would be one that supported me. He was not necessarily a member of Con Safo, but he was a supporter of me and, and I met him at the University of Michigan and we were both students there. And he would join the conversations that we had that—when we went up to that student union building on the floor. And sometimes he'd bring his little girl with him, this little tiny thing, (laughter) and her name was Rebecca. But his wife wouldn't come with him, I met his wife later on. His name is Fernando Gomez, just to let you know. And do you know him? No? \n\nSCHNUR: No. \n\nREYES: Okay. And then he, while there, went to Michigan State University to teach, because he had graduated at Michigan [University of Michigan]. He graduated with two PhDs, one in, I think, language—was I think was English, and then the other one was law [J.D. and Ph.D., American Culture]. And so went over there. But he bought one of my paintings, which was one of the abstracts that I did while doing my graduate studies and it was—had to do with color","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=7800.0,8100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and it was just a blank—it was just like a canvas with one color that just kind of shivered and changed and sort of it's like the front of the trends at that time. And the teachers worked me hard on that. I have to praise them, they worked the hell out of me. And I'm very indebted to them for anything that I have that I haven't disassembled. But anyway, he was very important in my life. And he was here in Texas. He came to Texas, lived in Austin. And I didn't know, he didn't tell me for the longest time. He came and saw me, and then would come to the gallery here. He used to sit right there and watch the people with the exhibits and wait until everybody bought. Then he'd come in by five, six, ten, or two or three of the big ones, something like that. So he had the most formidable collection of my work. And so—and he lived in Austin. And then he passed away. Oh, before he passed away. He was also—the work that he did in his position is that he was chancellor of five state universities [vice chancellor and general counsel for the Texas State University System]. UTSA [University of Texas at San Antonio], I think, was one of them. I'm not sure about that. Texas State [Texas State University], I'm sure of that one. I think A\u0026M [Texas A\u0026M University], they were all—they were all public universities. And so two others, I don't remember what they were. But when you look him up, you probably will tell you. I know that his business card showed the universities—the chancellor. So when Austin—San Marcos was dealing with all of these cruddy people, you know, I mean, they were cruddy. Even though I made friends—with a few exceptions—some Hispanics and then some white people. I always try to make friends with them. But when you can't, you can't. And then I put on my war face then at that point. And one of the faculty in the art department, they had a working as a clerk. \n\nSCHNUR: Is this at Trinity? \n\nREYES: No, this was over at Southwest Texas State [former name for Texas State University]. \n\nSCHNUR: Oh, okay.\n\nREYES: But it relates. Because of the —it gives you context. And she was a student when I was teaching at UTSA there. And then she went over there and—as a teacher. And she taught part time, one class and I took a class with her. (laughs) And so—and then she did clerical work. So you have, I guess, the benefits of insurance and all that other stuff. And she would also help enroll, you know, when you register to try to go and get yourself registered, you went through the department and they put you on there, whatever they got to do over there. And then I told her that I wanted to take a class, independent study, so that I could just do what I wanted to do to not—and not to follow instructions of a professor. I don't need this. I'm okay. I know what I'm doing and no disrespect to the professors. And she understood because she knew—saw me here as a professor. And the reason I did that was I didn't have this, or I could work. And so I took a class and I could just get a classroom and work. I had I'm a diabetic also and I had a clinic there if I needed help. I had a cafeteria if I needed food. I had the bookstore if I needed art supplies. So if I ran out of color, I could go down and get a needle brush or whatever I needed. It was available in that context. So that's the reason I chose to do these kinds of independent courses. And the professor, and I said—what I want to do is use them as a sounding board. They were willing for me to do it that way. They were okay with it, then I did it. And I told them who I was in my schooling. And the—I was telling the registrar—her, the girl—that I wanted to get that arrangement set up. She said, “Sure, sure, sure, it’s okay.” And she had here before","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=8100.0,8400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"given me a classroom that was not being used. And then the department head was there listening and then she said, “Okay, I'm going to see if I can get you this. No, it's being used. Let me see if I can get you—\" And then the department head came over and said, “You know, well, he's not entitled to anything.” I said, “Okay. Don't worry about it.” (inaudible) “I'll get you something.” Okay. Fine. We'll deal with it later. And so that was one. \n\nNumber two, I went to register. It was another year. I went to register. And the registrar—the actual place that you went to was in the bookstore. And I went in and I said, “Are you, are you still doing registration?” Because I didn't see activity or anything. The dates hadn't passed. It was sort of close to the end, but it wasn't there yet. “Are you still registering?” And the young lady that was there doing that said, “No.” But the handout out here says that it will be done until tomorrow or something of that sort. She says, “Yeah, but we're not doing it anymore.” “So I can't register?” She says, “No, you can't.” Okay. She says, “I'm not in. Don't worry.” One of these guys, big shots, was at this meeting that we would have at the Student Center at Michigan was one of the administrators there. There's two of them. And I know both of them. They know me. I walked in his office. “Hey, Felipe, come on in. ¿Que paso? What's going on?” And I told him what I was trying to do. He was very quiet. He says, “You wait here, I'll be right back.” He was gone for about ten, fifteen minutes, something like that. And he says, “Go ahead and register. You're going to be okay.” And I went, and the young lady was there, same thing. No one can register. I said, “But I went and talked to so-and-so. And he told me that I could register.” Her supervisor heard it, because he's the one that got hollered at. I let her find out that he went, at the top of his voice, started hollering at him for not following the university procedures. And then his students registered. They were eligible to register. He says, “I'll take care of it.” (inaudible) come with me. And he said—I told the girl, “Go sit down over there. Got me a register?” And I said, “It could have been easier. It could have been easier.” You need to tell your people to act right. But that's what they customarily did, in class or out of class. But that's just, I'm documenting. That's what I'm doing. And I never had that happen at Trinity, in terms of registering. So that's a good thing about Trinity, that I did feel that access was open to me. And that's very important. \n\nSCHNUR:  Yes. \n\nREYES: Anyway, I lost my way. Did I finish here? We were Tomás Rivera. I think I finished that. I'm not sure. \n\nDENNEY: I just have a couple more questions. As we have looked back at—as we have looked back at your time as a student at Trinity in the early 1970s, are you able to reflect and summarize your experience? \n\nREYES: Regarding what? Because I have a big mind. (laughs)\n\nDENNEY: I guess particularly just during the era of the 1970s. \n\nREYES: In relation to me being a student at Trinity? \n\nDENNEY: Yes. \n\n\nABREU-TORRES: The two years that you were at Trinity. \n\nREYES: I think that the thing that I mentioned regarding that question is that there is a need to have more institutional programming that meets the needs of the students. I think that when I was there—when I tried to look around and say, “Okay, who can train me to do the things I need to do in my life?” And I think those are some of the basic questions. Why do you go to school? Not only to broaden your knowledge, but to address specific learning areas that will make you more capable, more informed about the things that you need to develop yourself","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=8400.0,8700.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the work that you want to do. I think that that's the thing that—and then I asked, of course, Dr. Rivera about setting that office. And there's others that need to be done that I think the biggest issue that was there is that the struggle of building your identity against the pressures of enculturation. You know, so that they were in conflict. And the university did not have a service there in terms of coursework and degrees that allowed that particular type of student, and anybody's student because if whites understand our struggle, they can be helpful. They can help be more assisting, more helpful in allowing the students to do research that allows them to grow. And say, no, no, no, no, that does not relate to what you're going to be doing. Because we still have to do it through that cultural process. And so yeah, it is, no matter what the subject is. So I think that that's one of the things that still I think is probably not sufficient. \n\nDENNEY: Thank you. And do you have any advice for current Chicano students at Trinity? \n\nREYES: Give them hell. (laughter) Starting that. Because if you don't have the courage to stand up and defend your culture—your people. I mean, when I mean your people, I mean like your family. Your little brother and sister that may be following behind you to go to college. That the road for them is not as harsh for them as it could have been for you. So you need to have institutional trappings that support them and that assist them and it isn't just academic things. It needs to be cultural things. It needs to be psychological things. Whereas right now, the children in the high schools are going through tremendous trauma because of the social programs that are on the internet. Where they get exploited and damaged in many different ways. And makes them less prepared to be able to address their place in society and that's one of the areas that needs to be addressed. Not only in the high schools, which they don't. But also, especially in the universities. That’s or all children, not just Hispanics. Hispanics have the added burden of culture and language. And but that needs to be addressed in some important way, you know. Because right now, our children—and I'm talking about high schoolers and even middle schoolers—are resorting to violence against themselves. First suicide and others. Mass killings in schools. Because of the trauma they endure from children that are not knowing how to deal with being social. And this comes from kids that are isolated. And there’re no psychology programs. There’re no cultural programs that help find these kids and help them. It needs to be done. Society's in a mess. They need to respond to the needs of society. And that's one of them. And it addresses, it also applies to services to the Chicano community. \n\nDENNEY: Thank you. Before we end is there anything else you would like to share with us today?\n\nREYES: Do you have time? (laughter) \n\nSCHNUR: We can definitely do a second session.\n\nREYES: Why don’t you set up a list of quest—I was supposed to get a list of questions, right? And I never got them. \n\nDENNEY: I’m sorry.\n\nREYES: Oh, okay. Because I wanted to prepare. Now so they'd be more together. A lot of the things that happen outside of Trinity, Trinity has a role in it because of the progress that I make in my learning so it wasn’t like again. That was still something that was there to allow me to move on. One of the things I'm truly grateful for also is the professor that allowed me to go to—that inspired me to go to Michigan, try to go. Then there was a program, I don't know what it was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=8700.0,9000.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"within Mich—within Trinity. Carlos Toscano was the person that was working that—that was taking applications to go to Michigan at the time. I heard about it and to me it was like, Stamos [referring to Theodoros Stamos]. It was my second Stamos. That I've got to go to something that I truly, truly, truly loved because I saw what it could be like through that professor and his knowledge base. Because he was the only one that knew something that was academically and historically correct. The others were just, just talking, making things up, or putting personal opinions in. And I saw that in the, I saw that at SAC and I saw that a little bit in Trinity, not as much, but a little bit of it. In Michigan it was wonderful. It was strict on them as professors. They had to teach the essential content that is part of their philosophy of art—the department—philosophy of art. And they belonged to a school of art that dealt with the school of color. And so they were following that movement. They understood how to take it apart and put it together as the parts of art. You know, and that others have opinions about it, you know, other professors have opinions about it. But I don't want to know your opinion. I want to know what that is and how does it work? And how can I express through through that? Through meaning, how can I express meaning through that? They didn't bother with meaning, they just did exercises. What the hell is that? It's just like twiddling your fingers, you know, in art. If you're not saying anything, what the hell are you doing? You need to say something, very important. The challenges that I would present about meaning, I remember one was at—there's two, let me tell the one about Trinity first so I don't forget it. \n\nOne of my professors, Mr. Stoker, that I had at Lanier High School. I was taking a class with him, which was printmaking. And at this time we did different things like etchings and lithographs and collagraphs and just a bunch of different kinds of techniques. But when I was doing the lithograph—we still had the limestones. They have tin plates with the limestone on it and you can draw on it and print. But that was the original way lithographs are made. And it was that time when he was working that process. So I asked him, “Hey, can I make a drawing of La Malinche?” There was a recent exhibit here I think (inaudible). My print that I made—I printed it, was included in the catalog. I couldn't include one because I had sold everything on that. The whole series was completely sold out. But it was made under his class at Trinity University. And it's in that catalog. And that print also was the original. The only reason they were able to get that copy of the print—because I didn't have one—was through a journal that was submitted to and reproduced prior to that. And it was from University of Indiana [Indiana University Northwest], I believe that's from. And it was called the Chicano-Riqueño journal [Revista Chicano-Riqueña]. And they reproduced it just a few months after I printed it. I don't know how the hell they got it, but it was there. And I said, “What? What is this? Who did this?” And I asked all my friends, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. No one knew. And to this day, I still don't know. I still don't know. But it got published twice. One at Indiana University, and then here at the museum [referring to the San Antonio Museum of Art]. The exhibit traveled—started at Denver—one of my former students teaches there. And went to—it was supposed to go to university—UCLA [University of California, Los Angeles], UCLA. And then they canceled the show because of the COVID. And the date had already come up, and they couldn't put it up and show it. So instead it went to University of New Mexico","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=9000.0,9300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/transcript/72072/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":". And then from there in Albuquerque, then it came here to San Antonio. Let me tell you before I forget. The guy that has the biggest collection of my work, Fernando [Gomez], that was the chancellor of five universities. His daughter had the print. \n\nSCHNUR: Oh no. \n\nREYES: No, he had the print. But he had passed away, and now she had it. And so that, I referred the curator who sat right there to them. And she couldn't see any of them because they didn't directly address the—I need to show you a painting of La Malinche. They couldn't, I forgot what I’msaying. Because I was thinking about something. You recall? \n\nABREU-TORRES: You referred them to the curator. You referred them to the family, to the daughter to get the— \n\nSCHNUR: You have the original lithograph of La Malinche.\n\nREYES: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He didn’t even have the original lithograph. He had the print in the journal. That's what he had. And so she—the curator from the La Malinche exhibit got it from there and transferred it over to them. So the original is here somewhere, but I don't know where. There was one artist that had a copy, because he bought a series of them, that was in our group, Jesse Almazán. But he had passed away, and his wife was on the brink of death. And she passed away. So I couldn't get to the one that he had in storage somewhere. And I don't know where—who to contact to get, you know, get access to it. But anyway, it's around. Some people bought it, because I think I made it on ten sets. And it might have been less, but something like that. And so there was an—what was I going to show you? \n\nDENNEY: A painting.\n\nSCHNUR: Another La Malinche painting. \n\nREYES: Oh yes.\n\nSCHNUR: But maybe we should just formally end the interview, and then we can look at the painting for right now?\n\nREYES: Okay. All right. Anything else? \n\nDENNEY: No, that's all. Thank you so much. \n\nREYES: Okay. I bet you guys are hungry. (laughter) It's two o'clock. You must be starving. (laughter)\n\nDENNEY: It’s okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=9300.0,9451.73333"}]},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview with Felipe Reyes Jr. - Session 1 - Annotations [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe San Antonio Art Institute filed for bankruptcy and closed in 1992.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=300.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe caption “Irascible Group of Advanced Artists Led Fight Against Show” accompanied a photo by Nina Leen of the Irascibles in a January 15, 1951 issue of Life Magazine. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=1200.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThrough this retelling, Reyes appears to be blending two separate broadcasts; Hunger in America produced by CBS in 1968 and the Huntley Brinkley Report news program, produced by NBC in 1970. Hunger in America featured a segment on San Antonio juxtaposing the development of the Hemisfair World’s Fair in downtown San Antonio to the chronic hunger and poverty many citizens were facing in the city’s West Side.  Then Bexar County Senior Commissioner A.J. Plough was asked by the reporter about children not getting enough food.  Plough’s response was dismissive of the insecurities and blamed struggles on the fathers of families.  Further, Plough stated it was not necessary for children to get an education beyond the 8th grade and that there would always be hunger because there would always be “Indians and chiefs,” which is interpreted to mean there would always be a dominate group over another. The other broadcast, the news program Huntley Brinkley Report, featured San Antonio then Mayor Walter McAllister on the program on July 6th and 7th of 1970. McAllister’s remarks, referring to San Antonio citizens as “our Mexicans,” stated that Mexican Americans in San Antonio preferred to sing and dance over protest and were not as motivated as whites were to get ahead financially. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=3000.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eReyes is likely referring to an exhibition that took place on July 30, 1972 at the Assumption Seminary Student Union building in conjunction with the San Antonio Archdiocese.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=3600.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eReyes is likely referring to an exhibition that took place on July 30, 1972 at the Assumption Seminary Student Union building in conjunction with the San Antonio Archdiocese, the Mexican American Cultural Center (MACC), and the International Peace and Justice Conference directed by Bishop Patricio Flores. (Cordova, Con Safo, 39). For a list of all Con Safo exhibitions, see Cordova, Ruben. Con Safo: The Chicano Art Book. Los Angeles: UCLA Chicano Studies Research Center, 2009.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=3600.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eGlenn Neil Patton was a professor, and eventually chairperson of the Trinity University Art Department and graduated from the University of Michigan with a PhD in Art in 1971. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=4200.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003e: The statue Reyes is referring to a sculpture titled A Conversation with the Magic Stones by Barbara Hepworth, donated by Jane and Arthur Stieren to Trinity University in 1983. The statue is near the Center for Sciences and Innovation and Coates Library. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=5100.0,5400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eReyes is likely referring to the Nasher Sculpture Center which has a large metal sculpture by Max Ernst. The Nasher Sculpture Center is located just outside of the Dallas Museum of Art. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=5700.0,6000.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eTraitor, Survivor, Icon: The Legacy of La Malinche exhibit organized by the Denver Art Museum (DAM) and shown at the San Antonio Museum of Art (SAMA) from October 14, 2022 – January 8, 2023. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=9000.0,9300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720/annotation_set/1584/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003e: La Malinche, published in Revista Chicano – Riqueña 2, no. 3, 1974. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/118441/file/254720#t=9000.0,9300.0"}]}]}]}