{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/7s7hq3sj0t/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Shirley Rushing Poteet"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Shirley Rushing Poteet. Trinity University Women's Intercollegiate Athletics Oral History Project. UA-OH001-19-01. Coates Library Special Collections and Archives. Trinity University (San Antonio, Tex.).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThis interview is open for research. Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Trinity University Special Collections and Archives.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Participants"]},"value":{"en":[" Shirley Rushing Poteet (Interviewee)","Betsy Gerhardt Pasley (Interviewer)","R. Douglas Brackenridge (Interviewer)","Sharp Copy Transcription (Transcriber)","Index - Trinity University History of Sport (SPMT 3314) class (Writer of accompanying material)","archives@trinity.edu (Metadata contact)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2020-07-07 (Created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["OH001-19-01 (cms record id)","UA-OH001 (collection call number)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Women's Athletics Oral History Project (is part of)"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThis interview is open for research. Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Trinity University Special Collections and Archives.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/154/small/data?1625748704","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Interview with Shirley Rushing Poteet - Session 1 - Trinity University Women's Athletics Oral Hist"]},"duration":4802.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/154/small/data?1625748704","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4QR_W7jvLs","type":"Video","format":"video/youtube","duration":4802.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Shirley_Rushing_Poteet-01.xml [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY: Let me do the official stuff here. Today is July the 7th, 2020. This is\nan interview for the oral history project of Trinity University women's\nintercollegiate athletics. My name is Betsy Gerhardt Pasley. I'm a Trinity grad\nfrom 1977, and a former intercollegiate athlete. We also have Dr. Douglas\nBrackenridge, Professor Emeritus, Department of Religion from 1962 to 2002.\nToday, we have the privilege of interviewing one of our team members, and that\nis Shirley Rushing Poteet. She was the Associate Professor of the Department of\nPhysical Education from 1960 to 1995, and Department Chair from 1985 to 1995.\nSo, Shirley, thanks for letting us interview you, after three years.\n\nPOTEET: Thank you!\n\nPASLEY: Now, we can roam. Obviously we have different questions than we do for\nthe others, and I did send you guys some ideas. We don't have to stick to this\nscript, but I felt like it was a good way for us to make sure we get out of you\nsome of these great stories that you still remember, which is amazing to me. And\nDoug, I'm going to want you to partner with me, because you have a lot more\nsense of really what Shirley can add here. But let's start from the beginning.\nShirley, how did you get to Trinity, so long ago?\n\nPOTEET: Well, I was teaching at Baylor, and my department chair at Baylor\nactually had spoken with the department chair at Trinity, at a professional\nmeeting, and he told me about the vacancy there. It sounded like something that\nfit me. San Antonio being more appealing than Waco, I thought a university in a\ncity would have a lot to offer that was not offered at Baylor. So I interviewed\nfor the job!\n\nPASLEY: Who did you interview with?\n\nPOTEET: I interviewed with the department chair. Can't even remember his name\nright now. Because very soon after I signed my contract, he called me and told\nme that he was leaving, and did I want to buy his house?\n\nPASLEY: (laughs)\n\nPOTEET: And having just taught for three years, I didn't have enough money for a\ndown payment on a house, and so I politely declined that offer. So when I\narrived at Trinity, there was a new department chair, whom I had never met. So\nwe came in at the same time.\n\nPASLEY: And that was--\n\nPOTEET: Jesse MacLeay.\n\nPASLEY: Okay! (laughs)\n\nPOTEET: (laughs)\n\nPASLEY: We're recording this; I want to ask the obvious follow-up question. But\nhad you interviewed with Jesse MacLeay, do you think the outcome might have been different?\n\nPOTEET: No, I don't think it would be any different. I also interviewed with\nDean Thomas, while I was here, and I think he is actually the one who employed\nme. So I had met the academic dean.\n\nPASLEY: And this is in 1965, right?\n\nPOTEET: 1960.\n\nPASLEY: Oh, 1960, okay.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So you were the only woman in the department, is that right?\n\nPOTEET: Yes, yes. I was the only woman in the department. I probably didn't\nrealize before I came that--I was so impressed with the campus. They took me to\noverlook the tennis courts and see the swimming pool and the skyline. And I was\nduly impressed with that, and hardly realized that we didn't have a gymnasium.\n\nPASLEY: Doug, am I missing anything about just how Shirley got to Trinity,\nbefore I go backwards?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, she's got a lot to say, what the campus was like when she\ncame in 1960. But if you want to go back and get a little bit about her own\nhistory, before we do that?\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, because Shirley, when we had a phone call a few weeks ago, your\nown personal story about your involvement with athletics from a very early age,\nconsidering the time, I thought was really interesting. It would be fun to\ncapture that.\n\nPOTEET: In high school, I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=0.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"played four years of basketball, and that\nwas the only option at my high school. We had no football, we had no volleyball.\nBasketball was the only sport offered. But we did have basketball for the boys\nand girls. We traveled with the boys team all the time, and played the pre-game.\nAnd I guess the one interesting thing about our high school was we traveled on a\nGreyhound bus. Everybody else was on a yellow school bus. And we had a fan in\nour hometown who was a Greyhound bus driver, and some way, he got the use of a\nGreyhound bus. So we traveled in style for four years.\n\nPASLEY: And remind me where you went to high school. What was the name of the school?\n\nPOTEET: Iuka, Mississippi.\n\nPASLEY: Spell that for me.\n\nPOTEET: I-U-K-A.\n\nPASLEY: Wow. I-U-K-A, Mississippi?\n\nPOTEET: Yes. Iuka was an Indian chief. Then when I started to college, I started\nto what's now called community college, was then called a junior college. And I\nstarted to school there at the closest one to my home. This time, I was\ncommuting 80 miles a day on a yellow school bus. It was 40 miles away, so 40\nmiles in the morning, 40 miles in the afternoon, on a yellow school bus, which\nwas not a lot of fun. One of my high school teammates was recru--I didn't even\nknow they had a basketball team, when I went there. And one of my high school\nteammates was recruited to play on the basketball team. And she, after practice\nstarted, they still had a couple of spaces available, and she came to me and\nsaid, \"You can do this.\" And the idea of living on campus, as opposed to\ncommuting 80 miles a day, I found very appealing. So I tried out and made the\nteam. And we had dormitories for men athletes, we had an old house for women\nathletes, and we were the only ones who lived on campus. Everyone else commuted.\nThe house we lived in had very large rooms. I had four roommates. And we had one\nbathroom, with a gang shower. But it was wonderful compared to commuting 80\nmiles a day, so I loved it. We traveled all over the state. The state of\nMississippi was ahead of the game when it came to women's basketball. They had\nabout, I would say, eight to 12 junior colleges in the school (SP) and we all\nplayed each other. We traveled with the men's team and played every other school\nin the state during the year. I can't remember tournaments at the end of the\nyear; I think we just played games all during the year. There probably was a\nchampionship, but we were not in it.\n\nPASLEY: Like you say, so Mississippi--and remind me the timeframe here, Shirley?\n\nPOTEET: This is the early 1950s. I graduated in 1952, so I started school in\n1954 and was there from 1954 to 1956. Then when I went to senior college for my\nlast two years, we were very disappointed that they offered nothing. There were\nno intercollegiate athletics at all, for women. We begged for competition. There\nwas another college in the same town. I went to Mississippi Southern University\nin Hattiesburg. There was another college in the same town, and so all we had to\ndo would be invite people ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=300.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"over, but we couldn't find anybody on the\nfaculty who would listen to us. So for the last two years, there was no\ncompetitive athletics at all.\n\nPASLEY: That's pretty weird; you're going backwards.\n\nPOTEET: Yes, yes.\n\nPASLEY: Wow. So what happened next, after you graduated from Mississippi Southern?\n\nPOTEET: After I graduated from Mississippi Southern, they offered me a graduate\nfellowship to run the intramural program there, and teach classes. So I took\nthat and went straight in for a master's. After I completed that, I was at\nBaylor University, which still surprises me, that they would employ a\n22-year-old just out of college. But the employment procedures were a bit\ndifferent then. You didn't have search committees. You had major professors who\ntalked to other major professors, and they asked for recommendations. And I was\nemployed over the telephone, sight unseen, on the recommendation of my major professor.\n\nPASLEY: That is different. What was your major in?\n\nPOTEET: I majored in physical education.\n\nPASLEY: And is that something you always knew that you wanted to do?\n\nPOTEET: No. I started majoring in business. My first two years were devoted\ncompletely to business. So when I went to Southern, I didn't have a major. We\nalso didn't have academic advisors. I was majoring in business, with the idea\nthat I would be a secretary. The main occupations open to women were teaching,\nnurse, secretary. I didn't even know about physical education. We had none in my\nhigh school. And in junior college, I was exempt from it, because I played\nbasketball. And so I didn't really know about it until I got to college. And my\nonly academic advice was from my sister, who was a secretary, who said, \"You\ndon't want to do this.\"\n\nPASLEY: (laughs)\n\nPOTEET: So when I got to Southern--and she also suggested that I liked sports,\nand I might want to investigate something that had to do with sports. So when I\ntalked with the advisor--there was an advisor at Southern. So when I talked with\nthe advisor then, I started doubling up on courses, because I was way behind,\nbecause I had spent two years studying business.\n\nPASLEY: Sounds like it was a good decision, by the way. I just had to say that.\n\nPOTEET: It was, it was. It was a great decision.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: It was while you were at Baylor that you then got the position to\ncome to Trinity?\n\nPOTEET: Uh-huh.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So maybe it would be, in the interest of time here, is to move\ninto that. Because most of your stories are really about those early days at\nTrinity. I want to be sure we get those in the interview.\n\nPOTEET: When I came to Trinity, it was very different. I officed with the head\nof the Education Department, because that was the only office on campus that\nonly had one desk in it at the time. So they moved me in with him. On the upper\ncampus, women did not wear slacks. They were not allowed. So I came to work\nevery day in hose, heels, and a dress. And I came with a suitcase  ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=600.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nevery day, because for swimming, I had to bring a bathing suit. For modern\ndance, I had to bring a leotard. And for any sports, I had to bring shorts and\nshirt. So the swimming pool offered a dressing room. Otherwise, I dressed in the\nladies' restroom, in a stall. And I would take my suitcase with me; then I would\ntake it back to the office and get ready for the next change of clothes that I\nhad. We had no gymnasium. The first time I met with the president, he asked me\nif I had seen the blueprints for the gymnasium we were going to build as soon as\nwe got the money. And I told him, yes, I had seen the blueprints. And I also\nnoticed that they were yellow, which told me they had been there for some time.\nThey were cut out of a newspaper. So I didn't know how many years they had been\non the wall. But I arrived in 1960, and by 1963, we did have a gymnasium. We\ntaught some of our classes during those first three years at Trinity Baptist\nChurch. We used their gymnasium. We taught some on the Slab. And then we were\nallowed to use the varsity tennis courts. We had four varsity tennis courts, and\nwe were allowed to use those for classes, as long as the classes were finished\nbefore 2:00, because the men's varsity started practice at 2:00. So a lot of my\nfirst three years were used changing clothes from one place to another.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And you were doing intramurals as well, then?\n\nPOTEET: Oh, yes. Well, yeah. Since I was the only woman--a woman had to be in\ncharge of intramurals. So Houston Wheeler was doing the men's intramural\nprogram, so we started a women's intramural program. A lot of this was started\nfrom a class that Dr. MacLeay taught, which was called Exercise Science. He\nrequired his students to do some form of exercise out of class every week. And\nthinking back, I don't quite understand this, but I remember the first thing\nthat he required them to do was volleyball, and I had to be present at all\ntimes. So it was on Monday nights--I think it was Monday and Thursday--that we\ndid volleyball. And so I had to be present, because women were playing, and\nthere had to be a woman present. So being the only woman in the department, I\ngot to do that. Plus what we had at that time of women's intramural, which was\nvery, very skimpy. Until Jim Potter came on the faculty with intramurals, the\nwomen's intramurals was very skimpy at first. Okay, next?\n\nPASLEY: Keep going! This is interesting! (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So then at that point, we had no women's intercollegiate, right?\nWhatever sports they were, some were like what they call extramural, where they\nwent out and played some other teams? But they weren't intercollegiate, at all?\n\nPOTEET: Well, some people called them intercollegiate; some people called them\nextramurals. But as far as the team sports--and I can go into the team sports\nfirst, and then go into tennis, which I know much more about. The team sports\ncame out of intramurals. And this started--there was nothing from 1960 to 1965.\nObviously, if there's no gymnasium, there's not going to be any team sports. So\nthere was nothing from 1960 to 1965. Jim Potter came in 1965, and the intramural\nprogram was turned over to him. And so he started the men's and--or ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=900.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nhe picked up on the men's program, and started the women's program. And then out\nof intramurals, there were people who were highly skilled, who wanted to play at\na higher level. And so some of these were from the sororities. The winners of\nthe intramurals might have come from the sororities. They might have come from\nthe dormitories. But they wanted additional competition. And so Jim Potter\nstarted with--actually, Jim Potter and Bob Strauss started with basketball and\nvolleyball. Jim was doing basketball. Bob started doing volleyball. Bob was\nthere a year, and then he went away for a master's degree. He came back a year,\nand then he went away two years for a doctorate. And so Jim Potter was left with\nboth of them. I've talked with Jim and Bob within the last two weeks, to get any\ninformation I could glean from them, about this. And Jim said we played mostly\nlocal--Saint Mary's, Our Lady of the Lake. And the closest school with a team\nwas Southwest Texas, and they always had very, very strong teams. And so we were\nalways slaughtered by them, but we played them anyway. I asked Jim about his\nbudget, where he got the money. And he said he got it from Jesse. To which I\nreplied, \"I never could get any from Jesse.\" So I was a little jealous that\nJesse gave him money. The first budget that he could remember was $600. And he\nused that for travel expenses and food when they played Southwest Texas, and I\nguess if they played locally and didn't get back in time to get to the dinner\nthat was served on campus. So Jim basically ran any team sports for women,\nintercollegiate, from 1965 until 1972. And that's when Libby came in.\n\nPASLEY: So Jim, is he kind of like doing what--you're getting ready to tell us\nabout what you did with tennis. Was he just sponsoring them? Or was he actually\ncoaching them?\n\nPOTEET: Well, he coached them a little bit, because Jim was a basketball player.\nThey didn't have practices. They didn't have scheduled practices. They just got\ntogether and played, mostly. So there was enough skill level in that group of\npeople that they could do that. So certainly, with the local colleges, they\ncould compete. I know there was Incarnate Word occasionally, with volleyball.\nDuring the last part of this, there were some organized teams with other\nschools. And in volleyball, we qualified to go to State, one year. And I\nremember that because I took them. Both Jim and Bob were committed to something\nelse, and so I took them to Corpus Christi to the state tournament. We had some\nvery good volleyball players. Not good enough to really compete at the state\nlevel, but we did have some good volleyball players. Any other questions on the\nteam sports?\n\nPASLEY: So this is before like AIAW or any of that, so (INAUDIBLE)--\n\nPOTEET: No, no, no. That was going on all the time.\n\nPASLEY: There was always something with a bunch of initials, right?\n\nPOTEET: Yeah. Back in the background, actually in the 1950s, there was something\ncalled DGWS, which was the Division for Girls and Women's Sports. And this was\nthrough AAHPERD, American Association for Health, Physical Education, and\nRecreation. So they were a subset of them. DGWS ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=1200.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was in charge of the\nsports until about 1963. And in 1963--I think it was in 1963 when TRFCW took\nover. That's Texas Recreation Federation for College Women. And they too were a\nsubset of AAHPERD. DGWS kind of melted into them, for some reason. Well, there\nwere professional reasons. Recreation department was splitting away from\nphysical education in their meetings, et cetera. So TRFCW then became the\norganization that was in charge of women's athletics.\n\nPASLEY: So that's who was sponsoring this state tournament in Corpus Christi,\nfor example.\n\nPOTEET: I'm sure it was. They were organized--it transitioned into TRFCW in\n1964. And the first tournament that they sponsored was a tennis tournament.\nWhich I knew nothing about. It obviously was not very highly advertised, but I\ndidn't even know they had one in 1964. Because the first I knew of was in 1965.\nThat may be a part to segue into tennis, then. In the spring of 1965, a student\ncame into my office by the name of Sally Goldschmeding, and told me that she\nwanted to participate in a tennis tournament that weekend. And the tournament\nwas set up as a collegiate tournament, and you could not enter as an individual.\nAnd could she say that she was representing Trinity? And I thought about it for\nabout five or ten seconds, and I said, \"Yes.\" And then when she left, I thought,\n\"I wonder if I should have asked somebody.\"\n\nPASLEY: (laughs)\n\nPOTEET: But I didn't know who to ask, because my department chair had nothing to\ndo with women's tennis. And the university had nothing to do with women's\ntennis. And so I really didn't know anyone to ask, and so I just said, \"Yes.\"\nNow, Sally remembers this a little differently from my story. Sally said, in her\ninterview, that she came to talk to me in the fall, and that I told her to come\nback to see me in the spring. I don't remember that, but it could have happened,\nbecause that's probably what I would have told somebody who came to talk about\ntennis in the fall. And so, I thought until we started this project--I thought\nSally played in Seguin. I thought she played at Texas Lutheran in Seguin. And it\nwasn't until we started this project that I found out that she played in Belton.\nThat's another story; Sally's trip to Belton is another story. All right, that\nwas the Spring of 1965. And then in the Fall of 1965, I was attending a\nconvention where a group of ladies invited me in to attend this meeting that was\nstarting to organize women's athletics in Texas. And they were dividing the\nstate into so many districts, and we were in a district with about 11 other\ncolleges, and I think seven junior colleges. And ours included University of\nTexas, Texas Lutheran, Baylor, all of the San Antonio schools--Southwestern in\nGeorgetown, Mary Hardin-Baylor, et cetera. So, they were organizing sports--the\nfirst one that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=1500.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was involved in was tennis, but they were also\norganizing volleyball, basketball, et cetera, with rules for all of these,\ncompetition throughout the state, and then these were going to lead to state\ntournaments. So that's all that happened that fall. But then in the spring, I\nhad a phone call from my friend at Baylor, Olga Fallen, who was instrumental in\nstarting this. And she said, \"We are sponsoring the tennis tournament in the\nspring, and you are coming to bring a team. We know Trinity has women tennis\nplayers, because their men's team is so good. And so they have to have women who\nplay tennis there.\" So at that point, she didn't give me a choice. We had a\ncouple of majors, physical education majors, who were good tennis players.\nPotter had had a tournament in intramurals. And so I took two of our majors and\nthe winner of the doubles intramurals to Baylor to compete in the tennis\ntournament. At this time, we didn't have cell phones, and no one took a camera,\nand so we don't have pictures. I called one of the players when we started this\nproject, and asked her if she could remember anything that happened, or if she\nhad any pictures that she could give us. And she said the only thing she could\nremember about it was she remembered that she went, and she could remember\npushing my car. So we obviously had car trouble that trip. I didn't remember it,\nbut she did. Our doubles team at that tournament came in second. The team that\ncame in first was supposed to go to the state tournament. And Olga called me\nabout a week before the tournament and said, \"The team that won first place\ncannot go, and can the Trinity girls go?\" So I asked them if they would like to\ngo to the state tournament. One of them happened to have a car. And so they\nwent, and they came back with the trophy, having won the state championship.\n\nPASLEY: So they came back with a trophy. They had won the state title. And this\nis in 1966.\n\nPOTEET: 1966. So I'll just run through it, year by year, and just give you a\nbrief explanation of how it has grown. 1967, we had more players who were\ninterested in tennis, and we also had a player by the name of Mary McLean, who\nwas quite talented. We played several matches that year with San Antonio\nCollege, Southwest Texas. I took them to a tournament in Beaumont. Mary McLean\nwon the District IV championship, and then she represented Trinity at the state\nlevel. She didn't win state, but she won District IV championship. All games\nwere away. We didn't have courts. There were four courts, and that was for the\nvarsity, and for the varsity only. In 1968, things changed--well, things really\ndidn't change that much. We had two very talented students who came in, by the\nname of Emilie Burrer and Becky Vest. Emilie played with us, with the team.\nThere were several other players who were on the team. And so Emilie traveled\nwith us. The problem was, Becky didn't. Emilie and Becky tried to practice, but\nthey didn't have a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=1800.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"court. They asked permission to practice with the\nmen, and Clarence Mabry, who was the men's coach, let them practice with the men\nfor a while. And then they started a challenge tournament. And when Emilie and\nBecky got to the number three and four slots on the men's team, then Clarence\ntold them not to come back anymore.\n\nPASLEY: (laughs)\n\nPOTEET: So they were invited not to practice with the men anymore. That spring,\nEmilie and Becky, on their own, went to the Nationals. USLTA, the U.S. Lawn\nTennis Association, had their own tournament that was separate from all of these\nothers that we've been talking about in the state of Texas, that are organized.\nEmilie and Becky went to the tournament, and won nationals. Emilie won singles;\nEmilie and Becky won nationals, in 1968. It came as quite a surprise to\neverybody in San Antonio. There was a nice article in the paper about it. 1968\nhappened to be the year that we did have courts, and Trinity was hosting the\nmen's NCAAs. It was announced at the NCAAs that the women had just won the\nnational title, and everyone was quite surprised, because nobody, including\nClarence, knew that they were competing. The next year, 1969, we still fielded a\nteam. We had about six people playing. We did dual matches. We did tournaments.\nAnd Emilie told me that it was going to be more difficult in 1969 to win it,\nwith two people, because other schools would be sending four people. You could\nsend four people as a team. And the competition would be stronger. And so at\nthat point, we had two other players who were quite good, but we didn't have a\nbudget. And so I went to Dr. MacLeay, the head of our department, and asked for\nmoney to send these four people to nationals. He told me he didn't have any\nmoney, that I should go to the athletic director. So I went to the athletic\ndirector and tried to get money from him. And he actually laughed. He laughed at\nme. He said he had no money for women's athletics. And I asked him for\npermission to go speak to Derwood Hawthorne, who was the business manager, later\nvice president for fiscal affairs. At that time, he was called the business\nmanager. And I told him our story, and I left with enough money to send four\npeople to nationals. So Emilie and Becky, Susie Schulte, and Debbie Darby went\nto nationals, and they won by a point and a half, which meant the other two\npeople's contribution to the point totals helped us to win nationals that year.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We want to be clear that they weren't really a team, right? That\nnobody was really sponsoring--\n\nPOTEET: Well, we played as a team. I mean, Emilie and Debby and Susie Schulte,\nand Betty Meadows, Sarah McMillan. We played tournaments, and we played--there\nwas no practice. There was no coaching of them. Except I lined up the people the\nway I thought they should be lined up when we submitted--these were sanctioned\ntournaments. You had to send in--or I had to send in--their names and\ncredentials. That ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=2100.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they were qualified students from Trinity. They\nwere qualified to represent Trinity at that time. So they did compete as a team.\nAnd then the top four were Emilie, Becky, Susie Schulte, and Debbie Darby.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: For the record, and you know this, that they were not sponsored by\nthe Athletic Department, right?\n\nPOTEET: Oh, the Athletic Department had absolutely nothing--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I mean, by the athletic director. They were not part of the intercollegiate--\n\nPOTEET: They were not--I mean--the athletic director was in charge of men's\nathletics. He had nothing to do with women's athletics at that time. And there\nwas no women's athletic director, and there was no--the only budget I had was\nwhat I could get from Student Finance Board, which elected (SP) student activity\nthings (SP). So nothing came through athletics at that time.\n\nPASLEY: And I guess also to clarify, so these were four or eight or however many\nwere on this first team, so to speak, who were just interested in playing. There\nwas really no coaching. There were no practices.\n\nPOTEET: There were no practices.\n\nPASLEY: The schedule was whatever you could drum up. Is that right?\n\nPOTEET: And practice was whenever they could get on a court, and they scheduled\nthemselves. In fact, I tried to reserve courts for them to practice, and Dr.\nMacLeay would not let me. I tried to reserve courts for them at McFarlin Tennis\nCenter, the local San Antonio tennis center, and I was told that I should go\ntalk to Clarence Mabry at Trinity about courts. So I knew that wouldn't work.\n\nPASLEY: I have another quick question. In 1968, we built the--not the lower\ncourts, but the courts by the Slab, is that correct?\n\nPOTEET: No, in 1968, they built the lower courts.\n\nPASLEY: The lower courts. And that was so that the men could host the NCAAs?\n\nPOTEET: Correct.\n\nPASLEY: You mentioned, though, that your girls come back with this trophy. Was\nthat announced at that NCAA tournament that was held there at Trinity?\n\nPOTEET: It was announced on the PA system, yes.\n\nPASLEY: That's pretty wild! (laughs) That's a great vision right there.\n\nPOTEET: Moving right along, in 1970, we still had--every year, we had more\npeople interested in tennis, and so we had six or eight girls playing all the\ntime. Debbie Darby was our number one person in 1970, and she won District IV\ntitle, and then she lost in the finals to Cathy Beene, a player from Lamar. And\nwe hosted the state tournament on the Trinity courts that year. I had to get\npermission from the president of Trinity and also from Clarence Mabry, the men's\ncoach, to use the Trinity tennis courts for the state tournament, because we had\nto have all of the courts. That was 1970. All right, 1971, we have, in my\nopinion, a red letter day, the first thing that changed athletics at Trinity.\nTwo tennis players, two Trinity students, Sarah Scott and Nancy Spencer, came\ninto my office and they said, \"We want to see some changes around here. We're\ntired of going to other towns and getting writeups in their paper about how well\nthe Trinity tennis team is doing, and we come back here, and there's nothing.\nThe sports writers are not interested in us. The papers are not interested in\nus. We want to be officially recognized as a team. We would like to have a\ncoach, and we would like to have a budget.\" And I said, \"Okay.\" I said, \"There\nis a right way and a wrong way to go about this. And the right way is to\npetition the Athletic Council of Trinity.\" These are faculty members who are in\ncharge of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=2400.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"overseeing athletics. And of course they had just overseen\nmen's athletics up to then. But I told them that if they would like to talk with\nthe Athletic Council, I will make them an appointment, and I will go with them,\nbut they must present their case. I said, \"You have a better case than I do,\nbecause Trinity is paying me, and you're paying Trinity, and so they'll listen\nto you, more than they'll listen to me.\" At the same time, or in concert with\nthis, Tex Taylor, who was the--what was his position, Doug? He was the public\nrelations director at Trinity. I can't recall whether it was--I think it was\nbefore this meeting, he had called me and said, \"I would like for you to meet me\nand another person for lunch, and we want to talk about tennis.\" And so I met\nhim for lunch. He had a man with him. He introduced me to him, and he said,\n\"This man is interested in sponsoring financially women's tennis at Trinity. And\nhe also has a professional he would like to recommend.\" I didn't know that at\nthe same time, Sarah and Nancy had talked to I think it was the same\nprofessional. And so Tex asked me, \"Would you like to have a tennis pro to come\nover and coach the Trinity girls?\" And I said, \"I would love to have a tennis\npro come over and coach the Trinity girls.\"\n\nPASLEY: So who was going to pay for that?\n\nPOTEET: Well, we're presenting this--all right, the man who was with Tex was\ngoing to--he was going to contribute, and he was going to solicit from friends\nof his, to also contribute.\n\nPASLEY: Is this something where we need to know who it is, the man with Tex?\n\nPOTEET: He's deceased now.\n\nPASLEY: Who was this guy?\n\nPOTEET: His name was Thomas. His last name was Thomas. And I knew his wife.\nAnyway, that didn't happen. But, this was all happening simultaneously. So I\nmade the appointment for the girls to go to the Athletic Council, and they\npresented their story beautifully. Very, very articulate. They told them\neverything they wanted.\n\nPASLEY: Did you--I'm going to use the word \"coach\"--did you coach them on some\nlike bullet points or, \"Here's how you might want to present it\"? Did you help\nthem with that?\n\nPOTEET: You mean, on their presentation?\n\nPASLEY: Yes.\n\nPOTEET: I didn't have to. They knew what they wanted, and they both were very,\nvery bright, articulate students. I knew both of them. And they both had been on\nthe team, and I had seen them perform. And I had total faith that they could do\nthis. And so they did it. We left there with official recognition that--oh, by\nthe way, Clarence was also there, at the meeting. And the people on the Faculty\nCouncil asked him if he, on his travels, if anybody ever asked him about women's\ntennis at Trinity. And he said, \"Yes, all the time.\" And they said, \"Well, what\ndo you tell them?\" And he said, \"Well, I told them I think they have a club.\"\nNow, we had been playing for six years, then. But he didn't really recognize it\nas a team. So we left the meeting with official recognition, with a budget, and\nthat's where we left the meeting. And then the next thing I knew, I was called\ninto the president's office. The president was there, Clarence ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=2700.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mabry\nwas there, and Dr. Winipress, the president, told me that Clarence had decided\nthat John Newman would coach the girls. So--\n\nPASLEY: He was going to hire Newman, then? Newman wasn't on campus yet, right?\n\nPOTEET: Newman was his assistant, with the men's team. Newman was coaching the\nmen's team. And so, what would happen was, after Newman coached the men's team,\nthen he would come down and meet with the girls, and coach them. After this was\nofficially recognized, Dr. McLeay, my department chair, then came to me and said\nthe faculty--well, I can't remember where it came from; I guess it came down\nfrom the president's office--but he said, \"It has now been decided that there\nwill be an official faculty member with the teams.\" And we were at that time\nfielding a tennis team and a volleyball team, and he told me I could have my\nchoice of which one I wanted. And since I had been doing tennis for six years, I\ntold him I would prefer tennis. So I continued with the team the next three\nyears, doing everything that I was doing before. And then John Newman met them\non the court and he had practice sessions with them. He didn't go with us to\nout-of-town games or tournaments.\n\nPASLEY: Can I stop for a second? Because this is a great chronology. Do you\nrecall--how did you feel when the girls went into that Athletic Council? How did\nyou feel while you were there, listening to them, and listening to this\nconversation with Clarence Mabry at that meeting? What were some of the feelings\ngoing through you at that meeting? It sounds like it was a pretty substantive meeting.\n\nPOTEET: There were no surprises. There were no surprises. The girls who were\npresenting were very articulate. They stated their case. And I was there--if\nthey missed anything, if they left out anything, or if they needed something\nelse, then I was there to help them. But I didn't need to.\n\nPASLEY: Was there relief? Were you saying, \"Boy, why did this take so long\"? Or,\n\"Boy, this is awesome\"? Do you recall how you felt?\n\nPOTEET: Yeah. \"Awesome\" wasn't a word then that everybody used, but it was\nawesome! (laughs) Well, to me, it's the way things get started. It's the way\nthings get started properly at any university. If they have an interest, they\npresent their case to the proper authorities, and they got an answer. And they\ngot the answer they wanted.\n\nPASLEY: So you were bringing--and correct me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds\nlike you were bringing really your institutional knowledge of how things worked.\nAnd not only you're a professor and you're a teacher anyway; you're teaching\nthem how to get these things to work within the political bureaucracy of a university.\n\nPOTEET: Exactly.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And I think it's interesting that they came to Shirley. They\ndidn't come to somebody else there that you might think I would come to. But\nthey knew she was the person that would be supportive and that had the\ninformation, and I think also that was willing to let them speak for themselves.\nI think that's important, that she played that role that nobody else on campus\ncould really play. And Shirley needs credit for that. And then I think the very\nfact that she was there would make these young women more confident. They knew\nthey had somebody there that was for them. But any rate, that's just my\nobservation of looking at it.\n\nPOTEET: Well, it was the natural thing to do, because we were playing. I mean, I\nwas traveling with them. We were going to tournaments. And so--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: The other thing-- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=3000.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think I maybe mentioned this to\nShirley--but on some of these, when I would go online and look at the teams in\nthe early 1970s, that often Shirley would be listed as the coach. They would\nhave Shirley as the coach. And even when Newman was there, but because she was\nthe one that they recognized. Sometimes they would call her sponsor, but she was\nthe go-to person for all of these arrangements and that, that nobody else was\ndoing. So just want to be sure she gives herself credit. That's all.\n\nPOTEET: (laughs) Okay, we'll move along to--\n\nPASLEY: I'm going to stop one more time, and ask you this. It sounds like\nthere's obviously key players in here like Tex Taylor and Jesse MacLeay, but do\nyou recall what allies you may have had? Were there people who maybe were in the\nbackground who weren't necessarily at that meeting banging the drum for a\nwomen's tennis team or women's athletics, but were there other allies who maybe\npropped you up or gave you ideas or were secretly behind the scenes trying to\npush for this stuff?\n\nPOTEET: No.\n\nPASLEY: I was going to guess that, but I just wondered.\n\nPOTEET: (laughs) I can't think of anyone.\n\nPASLEY: So this is all you, and you're the only female in the PE department, so\nthe women are just going to naturally come to you.\n\nPOTEET: Yeah.\n\nPASLEY: I just wanted to ask the question.\n\nPOTEET: Interrupt me anytime. All right, that was 1971. To me, that was one of\nthe biggest things that happened. When I was involved with them, that was one of\nthe biggest things that happened with women's athletics. And Sarah Scott, who is\nSarah Mayo at this point, and Nancy Spencer, deserve a lot of credit for that.\nOkay, the next year, 1972, our talent continued to improve. At this time, they\ndid have scheduled practices. John Newman was working with them on the court. We\nhad four people, four students, who came in, who completely displaced the former\npeople as the top four. So, Sarah and Nancy, who had done the footwork on this,\nthe legwork, they moved down to numbers five and six on the team. That was fine\nas long as we were playing dual matches. We sometimes played eight people. But\nfor nationals, they would only allow four people. And so I took four players to\nnationals that year, at Auburn University. And they surprised everyone and came\nin fifth in the nation, tied with Lamar University. So we're starting to make\nprogress here. 1972.\n\nPASLEY: Can I interrupt for a second? We have four incredible players coming in.\nWas there any recruiting going on at the time? Or it was just starting to\ngradually build a reputation?\n\nPOTEET: No, there was no recruiting. In fact, at this time, recruiting was not\nallowed. We were under the auspices of AIAW at this time. And the philosophy of\nAIAW was to provide competition for students who were enrolled in your\nuniversity who wanted competition but recruiting of athletes was not allowed.\n\nPASLEY: So why do you think we were attracting these really good tennis players?\nObviously, the weather (INAUDIBLE).\n\nPOTEET: Tennis. The men's tennis team were playing UCLA and USC and they had a\nnational reputation. And so a lot of these people heard about it, Like Sally\nGoldschmeding in 1965, she had heard about it through the men's tennis team. And\nthese others, also. So our four people--we should give them credit: Susan Mapes,\nNancy Weigel, Jana Hooten and Drew Duggins--represented us at nationals in 1972.\nIn 1973, the world was turned upside down. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=3300.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"(laughs) That's when--\n\nPASLEY: First of all, I just have to put that in there, that I arrived.\n\nPOTEET: What?\n\nPASLEY: That was the year I arrived.\n\nPOTEET: That's the year you arrived, okay! You arrived the same year that Mary\nHamm, Donna Stockton, and Val Franta arrived. And then in spring semester, they\nwere joined by JoAnne Russell. We're still not recruiting at this time. Donna\nStockton's brother, Dickie Stockton, was an All-American at Trinity, so\nnaturally she knew about Trinity. Mary Hamm came into my office as a physical\neducation major. She was my advisee. And I had never heard of her, as far as\ntennis was concerned. When she left, she said, \"I'm going out to hit with\nDonna.\" And I said, \"Donna Latiri (SP)?\" who was another one of our (INAUDIBLE)\nplayers. And she said, \"No, Donna Stockton. She's my roommate.\" Okay, so Donna\nStockton's here. And then a third one was the girl who had finished high school\nat Alamo Heights. She was from Ohio, but she came south to play tennis. And so\nshe finished her--she graduated from Alamo Heights, and so she enrolled at Trinity.\n\nPASLEY: Who was that?\n\nPOTEET: Val Franta. And then JoAnne joined in the spring. During the fall of\nthat year, Donna, Mary, and Val came to me and said, \"There's an invitational\ntournament in Dallas, and we want to go.\" And so I said, \"Okay. \" I took them. I\ndon't remember who sponsored the tournament. I don't remember whether it was\nintercollegiate or open. But they wanted to go, and they had been practicing. I\nhad seen them practice all the time. And I knew they were pretty good. So I took\nthem to the tournament. And then after I saw them play, I knew that we had\nreached another level. And so in February, I got an invitation for a tournament\nin Arizona, a collegiate tournament. And I knew that the California schools\nwould be there, and most of the good players in the United States would be\nthere. And I looked at the budget, and we didn't have enough money to go. And so\nI went back to (laughs)--I skipped all of these people I had talked with at\nfirst before; I went directly to Derwood Hawthorne, the business manager, and\ntold him the story. I told him that we had national possibilities here, but we\ndidn't have enough money to go to this tournament and the national tournament.\nAnd I felt like this tournament was necessary in order to get seeds for the\nnational tournament. We played nationals in June, but we had to send in the\nentry fees in May. So I told him if I could go into the next year's budget in\nMay and send entry fees for the nationals, then I could take them to the\ntournament in Arizona. And he bought that. So we did that. We went to Arizona,\nand the tournament was designed as an A and B tournament. And so I entered Donna\nand Mary in the A division, Val and JoAnne in the B division. JoAnne had been\nthere about a month, then, and so no one knew what she could do at that point.\nIt ended up we won both divisions. Mary won the singles in the A division. Mary\nand Donna won doubles in A division. JoAnne won singles in B division, and she\ndefeated Val, her teammate, for singles championship. So I came back thinking,\n\"We really do have national possibilities.\" From that time on, we played\nsomebody every ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=3600.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"weekend except one, from February to May. And we never\nlost a tournament. We never lost a dual match that year. We never lost a\ntournament, except one to Lamar. Lamar University had the number one doubles\nteam in the United States, and a singles player who was--I can't remember her\nranking, but she was in the top ten. So in June, I took these four girls to\nAuburn. We were not seeded the way I thought we would be. Our doubles team, Mary\nand Donna, were seeded number two. The team that we had beaten in Arizona--I\nmean, we were seeded number six. The team that we had beaten in Arizona was\nseeded number two. The doubles team from Lamar was seeded number one, which they\nshould have been. That year, we played them four times, two dual matches, and\ntwo tournaments. We won two, and they won two, so we had an even split. And so\nwe played the nationals. On Wednesday, it was a--not double elimination; it was\nelimination consolation. If you lost a match, you went into the consolation\nround, and you would have to play twice as many matches, and keep winning, to\nget back in the winners' bracket. We lost some games in that. Our doubles team\nwas traveling, but we lost some singles matches. And at the end of the day\nWednesday, I thought we were mathematically out of it. But Donna and Val came\ninto my room that night and told me they had figured this every way they could,\nand we still could win this tournament if we could win seven matches. Five of\n(INAUDIBLE) we were playing in; two of these we were not playing in. UCLA had to\nlose two matches, and we had to win all five that we were playing in, in order\nfor us to win. That all happened.\n\nPASLEY: (laughs)\n\nPOTEET: And the five matches we won, three of them went three sets.\n\nPASLEY: Wow.\n\nPOTEET: So it was quite exciting.\n\nPASLEY: So even though this wasn't the first national championship for our quote\nunquote team, it really was the first for an official recognized team, correct?\n\nPOTEET: Right.\n\nPASLEY: Let me ask one other thing. And this is probably implied, but I just\nwant to ask it. So as you're there talking to the girls, and at night, between\nthe matches, and as you're determining who's going to play in which position,\nJohn Newman is back in San Antonio?\n\nPOTEET: Yes.\n\nPASLEY: Okay, so he's helping them practice, but when you schedule tournaments\nand when you go, and when you determine who's going to be on what team and A and\nB and all that, that's all you?\n\nPOTEET: Yeah. And if they split sets, and it goes into a third set, then I'm\ntalking to them between sets.\n\nPASLEY: Wow. Okay. By the way, when you were recounting your basketball career\nin high school and college, did you ever play tennis?\n\nPOTEET: (laughs) Yes. Not in high school, but in the city. In my home town, I\nplayed. And I learned to play on my own, and I learned to play all wrong. And I\nspent my time in college unlearning what I had learned on my own. I did win one\ntournament. I only played in one tournament, and I did win one tournament. I\nnever had a coach. I'll have to give you this story--we had a man in the park\nwho was employed to be in charge of the people ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=3900.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"playing tennis, of the\ntennis courts. The only instruction he ever gave me was \"Hit it where they ain't.\"\n\nPASLEY: (laughs) That's kind of like Wayne Gretsky's quote.\n\nPOTEET: Uh-huh, uh-uh. So--like a Yogi Berra. So anyway, as far as strategy\ngoes, I learned it with these girls from the ten years that I was with them. I\nlearned a lot of strategy then, and could calm them down, if they were overly\nexcited (laughs). The other thing, and I think this was at the 1972\nnationals--1972 was when Title IX had passed. At nationals, I think it was the\none in 1972, I met a girl there who had filed a lawsuit. She was a tennis player\nin Florida, and she was on a tennis scholarship, and when she tried to enter\nnationals, they wouldn't let her play because she was on a scholarship. They\nwere still illegal at that time. And so she came to the tournament just to\nwatch, and I talked to her. And I said, \"Whatever made you file suit?\" And she\nsaid, \"Well, I was playing with a friend of my dad's. I was playing tennis with\na friend of my dad's. He was an attorney. And I told him I was coming to this\ntournament but they wouldn't let me play. And he said, 'What?'\" And so that was\none of the first lawsuits filed there. In 1973, Title IX had been passed. So\nthen that was the biggest topic of conversation at nationals in 1973. And\nschools were talking about how many scholarships they were going to get, and who\nwas going to get them, et cetera, et cetera. And so, when he came back from\nnationals, after about two weeks, I made an appointment to speak with Dr.\nWinipress, and told him that I had just come back from nationals with the girls\nwho had won the national championship. Everybody there is talking about Title\nIXs and scholarships, and eventually we're going to be giving scholarships. And\nI think that Trinity, with four freshman who had just brought home a national\ntitle, I felt that they should do the right thing and go ahead and give them\nscholarships. I told him we'd be playing schools that were on scholarships, from\nnow on. This is the third time that Derwood Hawthorne has come into play. Dr.\nWinipress picked up the telephone, called Derwood Hawthorne and said, \"Can you\nget me x number of dollars for the fall?\" Well, he called him to come up into\nthe office, and he asked him that. And Derwood said, \"Yes.\" And so at that\npoint, Dr. Winipress told me I could call the four girls and tell them that they\nwould be on scholarship in the fall. They had already--they paid their way in\ntheir freshman year. They had already made their deposits for the fall. So they\nweren't asking for this. But I asked him if we could also refund their deposits\nthey had made for the fall, and he said yes. So I called the four girls and told\nthem they would be on full scholarship for the remaining three years of their\nlife at Trinity.\n\nPASLEY: What was that phone call like?\n\nPOTEET: It was a thrill. It was a thrill. Donna told me later she jumped up and\ndown on the bed. The parents were of course thrilled. And the girls were\nthrilled because of the money but they were also thrilled to be honored that\nway. So it was a giant step.\n\nPASLEY: Absolutely. Is Derwood Hawthorne still around, with us?  ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=4200.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\nPOTEET: No, no. He's deceased. You may have known his son. Did you know his son\nDoug? He was a student at Trinity, and he's now on the Board of Trustees, and\nhas been for some time. Doug Hawthorne. Okay, I'll finish my tenure very fast.\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, I was going to say, we'll wrap up here in about the next ten\nminutes. And then (INAUDIBLE).\n\nPOTEET: 1974 was a mirror of 1973. We won everything we played, until we got to\nnationals, and Donna Stockton got hurt during practice at nationals. And so we\ncame in second instead of first in 1974. At that point, that's when they decided\nthat they would hire a full-time coach, and so Marilyn Montgomery was hired to\ncome in the next year.\n\nPASLEY: And that's a good reminder--all this time, John Newman is a part-time\ncoach, right?\n\nPOTEET: Yeah. Well, he was a part-time coach for the men's team, but then he was\na part-time coach for the women's team. Until 1974.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: He got credit for all those championships. On his resume, he got--\n\nPASLEY: Oh, John Newman got credit?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: John Newman got credit for those--that he was the coach and so\nforth. So Shirley was doing all this, but he had his name on it. And then of\ncourse with the Title IX, part of the understanding was that if the men had a\nteam, then the women should have the same team. So the only scholarship team\nthat we had at Trinity was tennis. So the tennis women got scholarships, but the\nother sports didn't get them, because by then, we were all Division III. We were non-scholarship.\n\nPOTEET: And I might add, while it was easy for Trinity, because men had eight\nscholarships, and all of the rest of the schools, all over the country, were\nfighting for scholarships for eight or ten different sports. And so as Title IX\nwas instituted all over the country--you know, volleyball would get so many\nscholarships, basketball would get so many. And we did not have to fight that,\nwhich is one of the things I knew when I went in to talk to Dr. Winipress about\nthat. I knew it would be easy for us, and it wouldn't be easy for anybody else.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But again, I think it's important for the story, is that the\nimpetus for this--maybe it would have happened, but if it hadn't been for\nShirley being involved in this, it wouldn't have happened as quickly as it did.\nAnd my guess is it wouldn't have been implemented that first year. Because\nnobody still didn't know a whole lot about it, right? They still weren't really\nclued into it. So again, she was a key player in getting this process started,\nand really giving the women a head start on it. Again, I'm just wanting to be\nsure that she gets the right credit for all of her hard work.\n\nPASLEY: Awesome. So we're in 1974 or 1975? Oh, and Marilyn is now coach.\n\nPOTEET: Actually, in 1975, then there were two other tennis players of the same\ncaliber as the four we had. And so then they won two championships in a row.\nThey couldn't keep from winning two championships in a row, with the amount of\ntalent they had.\n\nPASLEY: Stephanie and--yeah.\n\nPOTEET: Stephanie, and Sandy Stap.\n\nPASLEY: These are my days. I'm remembering these. They were so (INAUDIBLE).\nNeat. Wow. You're memory--I assume you wrote some of this down, but your memory\nis incredible to me. Should we take a break and schedule another follow-up?\nBecause I do want to get more--we got some more tennis stuff. I'd like to get\nmore just of your thoughts, even as a bystander, of Libby, and just how things\ncontinued ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=4500.0,4800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/transcript/30559/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to progress.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=4800.0,5100.0"}]},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Shirley_Rushing_Poteet-01.xml [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Introduction","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=0.0,87.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY: Let me do the official stuff here. Today is July the 7th, 2020. This is an interview for the oral history project of Trinity University women's intercollegiate athletics. My name is Betsy Gerhardt Pasley. I'm a Trinity grad from 1977, and a former intercollegiate athlete. We also have Dr. Douglas Brackenridge, Professor Emeritus, Department of Religion from 1962 to 2002. Today, we have the privilege of interviewing one of our team members, and that is Shirley Rushing Poteet. She was the Associate Professor of the Department of Physical Education from 1960 to 1995, and Department Chair from 1985 to 1995. So, Shirley, thanks for letting us interview you, after three years.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=0.0,87.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why Trinity?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=87.0,260.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY: ...But let's start from the beginning. Shirley, how did you get to Trinity, so long ago?\n\nPOTEET: Well, I was teaching at Baylor, and my department chair at Baylor actually had spoken with the department chair at Trinity, at a professional meeting, and he told me about the vacancy there. It sounded like something that fit me. San Antonio being more appealing than Waco, I thought a university in a city would have a lot to offer that was not offered at Baylor. So I interviewed for the job!\n\nPASLEY: Who did you interview with?\n\nPOTEET: I interviewed with the department chair. Can't even remember his name right now. Because very soon after I signed my contract, he called me and told me that he was leaving, and did I want to buy his house?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=87.0,260.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Growing up with Athletics","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=260.0,848.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY: Doug, am I missing anything about just how Shirley got to Trinity, before I go backwards?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, she's got a lot to say, what the campus was like when she came in 1960. But if you want to go back and get a little bit about her own history, before we do that?\n\nPASLEY: Yeah, because Shirley, when we had a phone call a few weeks ago, your own personal story about your involvement with athletics from a very early age, considering the time, I thought was really interesting. It would be fun to capture that.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=260.0,848.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Early Days at Trinity","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=848.0,1022.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: So maybe it would be, in the interest of time here, is to move into that. Because most of your stories are really about those early days at Trinity. I want to be sure we get those in the interview.\n\nPOTEET: When I came to Trinity, it was very different. I officed with the head of the Education Department, because that was the only office on campus that only had one desk in it at the time. So they moved me in with him. On the upper campus, women did not wear slacks. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=848.0,1022.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Intramurals and Extramural Sports in the 1960s","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=1022.0,1613.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: And you were doing intramurals as well, then?\n\nPOTEET: Oh, yes. Well, yeah. Since I was the only woman--a woman had to be in charge of intramurals. So Houston Wheeler was doing the men's intramural program, so we started a women's intramural program. A lot of this was started from a class that Dr. MacLeay taught, which was called Exercise Science. He required his students to do some form of exercise out of class every week. And thinking back, I don't quite understand this, but I remember the first thing that he required them to do was volleyball, and I had to be present at all times. So it was on Monday nights--I think it was Monday and Thursday--that we did volleyball. And so I had to be present, because women were playing, and there had to be a woman present. So being the only woman in the department, I got to do that. Plus what we had at that time of women's intramural, which was very, very skimpy. Until Jim Potter came on the faculty with intramurals, the women's intramurals was very skimpy at first. Okay, next?\n\nPASLEY: Keep going! This is interesting! (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So then at that point, we had no women's intercollegiate, right? Whatever sports they were, some were like what they call extramural, where they went out and played some other teams? But they weren't intercollegiate, at all?\n\n","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=1022.0,1613.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Early Women's Tennis at Trinity, 1965-1969, Sponsorship","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=1613.0,2557.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"POTEET:...In the spring of 1965, a student came into my office by the name of Sally Goldschmeding, and told me that she wanted to participate in a tennis tournament that weekend. And the tournament was set up as a collegiate tournament, and you could not enter as an individual. And could she say that she was representing Trinity? And I thought about it for about five or ten seconds, and I said, \"Yes.\" And then when she left, I thought, \"I wonder if I should have asked somebody.\"","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=1613.0,2557.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Early Women's Tennis at Trinity, 1970-1971, Demands for a Team","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=2557.0,3114.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"POTEET: Moving right along, in 1970, we still had--every year, we had more people interested in tennis, and so we had six or eight girls playing all the time. Debbie Darby was our number one person in 1970, and she won District IV title, and then she lost in the finals to Cathy Beene, a player from Lamar. And we hosted the state tournament on the Trinity courts that year. I had to get permission from the president of Trinity and also from Clarence Mabry, the men's coach, to use the Trinity tennis courts for the state tournament, because we had to have all of the courts. That was 1970. All right, 1971, we have, in my opinion, a red letter day, the first thing that changed athletics at Trinity. Two tennis players, two Trinity students, Sarah Scott and Nancy Spencer, came into my office and they said, \"We want to see some changes around here. We're tired of going to other towns and getting writeups in their paper about how well the Trinity tennis team is doing, and we come back here, and there's nothing. The sports writers are not interested in us.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=2557.0,3114.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Reflections on Women's Tennis Development","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=3114.0,3404.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY: Can I stop for a second? Because this is a great chronology. Do you recall--how did you feel when the girls went into that Athletic Council? How did you feel while you were there, listening to them, and listening to this conversation with Clarence Mabry at that meeting? What were some of the feelings going through you at that meeting? It sounds like it was a pretty substantive meeting.\n\nPOTEET: There were no surprises. There were no surprises. The girls who were presenting were very articulate. They stated their case. And I was there--if they missed anything, if they left out anything, or if they needed something else, then I was there to help them. But I didn't need to.\n\nPASLEY: Was there relief? Were you saying, \"Boy, why did this take so long\"? Or, \"Boy, this is awesome\"? Do you recall how you felt?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=3114.0,3404.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Early Women's Tennis at Trinity, 1971-1972, Becoming an Official Team","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=3404.0,4147.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Early Women's Tennis at Trinity, 1972-1975, Title IX","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=4147.0,4802.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154/index/48426/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PASLEY:...By the way, when you were recounting your basketball career in high school and college, did you ever play tennis?\n\nPOTEET: (laughs) Yes. Not in high school, but in the city. In my home town, I played. And I learned to play on my own, and I learned to play all wrong. And I spent my time in college unlearning what I had learned on my own. I did win one tournament. I only played in one tournament, and I did win one tournament. I never had a coach. I'll have to give you this story--we had a man in the park who was employed to be in charge of the people playing tennis, of the 01:10:00tennis courts. The only instruction he ever gave me was \"Hit it where they ain't.\"\n\nPASLEY: (laughs) That's kind of like Wayne Gretsky's quote.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46102/file/119154#t=4147.0,4802.0"}]}]}]}