{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/k93125r13j/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Mary McLean Wilson"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThis interview is open for research. Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Trinity University Special Collections and Archives.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Participants"]},"value":{"en":["Mary McLean Wilson (Interviewee)","R. Douglas Brackenridge (Interviewer)","Sharp Copy Transcription (Transcriber)","Index - Trinity University History of Sport (SPMT 3314) class (Writer of accompanying material)","archives@trinity.edu (Metadata contact)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2017-10-16 (Created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["OH001-14 (cms record id)","UA-OH001 (collection call number)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Women's Athletics Oral History Project (is part of)"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThis interview is open for research. Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Trinity University Special Collections and Archives.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/108/small/data?1625656727","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Interview with Mary McLean Wilson - Trinity University Women's Athletics Oral History Project"]},"duration":1938.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/108/small/data?1625656727","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL6X1k9bxYY","type":"Video","format":"video/youtube","duration":1938.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30529","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Mary_McLean_Wilson.xml [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30529/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: All right. We've started recording. This is October the 16th,\n2017. I'm Douglas Brackenridge, Professor Emeritus at Trinity University. And\nI'm talking to Mary McLean Wilson. How do you spell the McLean?\n\nWILSON: M-C capital L-E-A-N, like the Marrs-McClean Building, which I'm probably\nrelated to someplace. (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You may be related then, huh?\n\nWILSON: Someplace along the line.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Mary, what we want to talk a bit about is your experience at\nTrinity as a student athlete.\n\nWILSON: Student athlete? Is that what I was? (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So, start out by telling me, how did you get to Trinity?\n\nWILSON: You know, what happened was my mother took me on a little college tour.\nAnd I really wanted to go to Corpus, because a friend of mine played tennis down\nthere, and her mother was the coach and the physical education department head.\nAnd so I went down there. I played tennis for them just to show them I could\nplay. And it's really where I wanted to go. But my mother was so worried about\nme going down there. So our next stop was here, at Trinity. And my mother\nabsolutely of course fell in love with this campus and said to me, \"You're going\nhere.\" So, I came here. I loved it. I of course was a physical education major,\nloved Shirley Rushing, who is Poteet now, correct? Her last name?\n\nWILSON: Right.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Shirley was great. I loved being here. My parents really probably\ncouldn't afford it as much as they would liked to have, so I also got a job. I\nthink my junior year, I got a job through the physical education department\nteaching at a local little school, their little athletic department. So all of\nthat was fun. And then also working for intramurals in the PE department. So\nthat helped.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Let me back up just a little bit, as to--where did you come from?\n\nWILSON: Fort Worth, Texas.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Fort Worth, Texas? And you were out looking for a school where you\ncould play tennis, is that right?\n\nWILSON: That was my dream. Because I played tennis in high school. And I started\nplaying tennis when I was like 12, and it was really the love of my life at that\ntime in my life.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And what year?\n\nWILSON: Well, I started Trinity in 1963. So, I was playing for Paschal High\nSchool, high school tennis. But I was before Title IX and I was before many of\nthe opportunities that exist today. And it's something I wanted to do, but it\nwasn't like I had a great direction on how to do it.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And were you aware of Trinity's reputation as the tennis and Chuck\nMcKinley and all ?\n\nWILSON: Not really. And also, it was all the men. So really the reason I came to\nTrinity was because my mother said I was coming to Trinity.\n\nBOTH: (laugh)\n\nWILSON: And I, of course, had a wonderful experience the minute I stepped on\ncampus. My roommates were wonderful so that worked out great. But looking back,\nI feel that basically I was cheated out of that opportunity of really playing\nwith a team. Like I just saw Butch Newman, who I adore, and he was talking about\nof course they had an amazing camaraderie, amazing team, and they still do\nthings together, and they're still enjoying their friendships. And that's one of\nthe things I told the team here: I said, \"It's so important to continue these\nrelationships throughout your life, so cherish them.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So, when you came, there was no women's tennis team?\n\nWILSON: No. So, I really wasn't even playing tennis.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And you graduated what year now?\n\nWILSON: 1967.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay, now. By 1967, there were a--\n\nWILSON: Yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I'm seeing teams. And in the Trinitonian--come on now, I should\nhave--I know her. She was one of my students.\n\nWILSON: Emilie Foster?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: No.\n\nWILSON: Becky Vest? (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, come on, Doug. Betty. Betty Meadows.\n\nWILSON: Oh, yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: She was one of my students. And I noticed in the Trinitonian, in\nlike the 1967, it said ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=0.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30529/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she had played the previous year. So, I'm\nguessing 1966 that there had some kind of team?\n\nWILSON: I know that--well, the year of 1966, 1967, my senior year--this picture\nwas taken my senior year, I'm pretty sure. And that's when we started a team.\nAnd Shirley was instrumental in starting that team, meaning there was a\ntournament, we all got together, we practiced a little bit and went. And if you\nwant to call that a team. It was just a unique experience at Trinity. It really\nwasn't a team. It was a just a moment in my experience.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But it was the students that generated it.\n\nWILSON: I would say Shirley Rushing generated it. She created that experience\nfor us. Because we didn't even know about it, and there was nobody--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: These are the things that I really want to know.\n\nWILSON: At least that's my recollection of it. I mean, I wouldn't have known\nabout that tournament.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I was at Trinity then, but my life was a young professor and\nraising a family and I was interested in sports. I've always been interested in\nsports. And I played down there all the time. But this was all going by me, you\nknow. I didn't--so, when you came, then did you have any interaction with\nClarence Mabry.\n\nWILSON: No. You know, I wish I could have played for the men's team. I probably\nobviously wasn't good enough. But, not really. My experience with Clarence Mabry\nis I actually, when I was like maybe 15, went to his camp at Texas A\u0026M\n(Agriculture and Mechanical). And that was before I even knew that he was at\nTrinity. So I was not motivated by coming to Trinity for any other reason that\nmy mother loved this campus.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But you had wanted to play tennis?\n\nWILSON: I did. I wanted to.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And competitively?\n\nWILSON: Oh, yeah. But the opportunity wasn't there. And I didn't create it. And\nI think more of the women at that period of time were just accepting things. We\nweren't like trying to make a difference and say, \"Look, I want a tennis team\nand we're gonna work on that and make it happen.\" No. I was having fun doing\nother things. I was really coming into my own in the social realm. I mean I\nbarely ever had a date in my life before I came to Trinity. And so that was\ndefinitely different. And just the independence of being away from family. So I\nreally don't have a lot to tell you about! But I loved the physical education.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You're telling me a whole lot! That's what I want to know!\n\nWILSON: Yeah. The physical education department was really important to me.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right. So, did you play a lot of tennis?\n\nWILSON: At school?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah.\n\nWILSON: I really don't even think I played a lot of tennis. I think I would go\ndown to San Pedro and pick up games down there, and play.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So, tennis was really an important part of your life, right?\n\nWILSON: Before I came to school.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Before. So it had been something that you were very much interested--\n\nWILSON: Yeah. And it was very important after school. I really played a lot of\ncompetitive tennis when I left here.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We'll talk about that. So in terms of when I see you at a\ntournament or something, it's something because Shirley has--in other words, you\ndidn't scout out and say, \"Hey, I see there's a tournament\"? Or did you?\n\nWILSON: No. I had not a clue. Like in the summers--I would have a job in the\nsummers, at Waldemar. I worked at Waldemar one summer. Worked in Fort Worth in\nthe public schools one summer. I had to work to be able to help (INAUDIBLE).\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And were you involved like in intramurals?\n\nWILSON: Oh, yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And did they have tennis intramurals and that?\n\nWILSON: No, not really. They had basketball. Well, actually a lot--because I was\na member of the social club, so we played each other.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay.\n\nWILSON: Chi Betas. And so--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, I think that was part of the intramural setup, right?\n\nWILSON: Yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So you were playing some tennis, but your focus was not on, \"Hey,\nwe ought to have a team\"?\n\nWILSON: No, unfortunately. I didn't make an effort.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And again, I'm trying to evoke some things here (laughs). As far\nas you recall, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=300.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30529/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the fact that we had a men's team and that, that was\nnot something that you said, \"I wish I had that\"? Or you supported it or just\nyou were aware of it?\n\nWILSON: I was just doing other things. Tennis was so much a part of my life\nbefore, and it really wasn't a major part when I went to school.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And any of these other women that you played with, as far as you\nknow, that was pretty much their--\n\nWILSON: I can't even remember who they were. (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: --same experience?\n\nWILSON: We just--I don't know how we all got together to form this little team.\nI remember one person was from Houston, but I can't remember her name. She was\nreally cute. And she was pretty good. But yeah, it was an opportunity missed, really.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, I saw too--I should have brought all this with me, because\nmy memory is--but I have these photographs of these teams, and what happens is,\nthey're in the Mirage. If it's in the 1968 Mirage, it's often the (laughs) 1967\nteam. I have to keep those straight. But I have two photographs of two teams,\nand you're in the one of them.\n\nWILSON: I am? Oh, that's too bad.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And then the next one--\n\nWILSON: It's probably in the Annual. I need to look at that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I think Emily isn't even there in--\n\nWILSON: No, she comes in 1967, 1968. She's after me.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: What was I going to say here? I'm sorry.\n\nWILSON: That's okay. About the Mirage. The two teams.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I'm getting too--well, I get them--to get the years focused,\nwhether you actually played--it looks like you played in the springtime. Is that\nwhen the tournament seemed to be more in the spring than in the fall?\n\nWILSON: Are you kidding? You're asking me?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah.\n\nWILSON: (laughs) First of all, you mean the tournament.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: The tournament for you.\n\nWILSON: Not the tournaments.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay. Well, there were others after you that were played, where we\nweren't really organized. So but I think that was in the spring.\n\nWILSON: I don't really know. What does this look like that? Does that look like\nspring? But then I came back and took that picture (INAUDIBLE). Yeah, I have no idea.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's no problem.\n\nWILSON: I just know I had this one experience of playing at Trinity.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay, I know what I was thinking about. That in the one, they said\nthat one of the players had made a badge that you could put on your uniform.\n\nWILSON: Really?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah.\n\nWILSON: Uniform? Did we have a uniform?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, you were dressed--you're dressed in whites, you know. They\nweren't Trinity.\n\nWILSON: (laughs) Yeah. We didn't have a uniform!\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But the team after you, they had these badges.\n\nWILSON: Oh, the team after us.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah. But then it disappears. You don't see it again.\n\nWILSON: Right. I have no idea what that is.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And of course, the other thing was that, as far as I can tell, the\nwomen, even when they did have the team, they did not get scholarships until\nafter Title IX. That's when there first began to be athletic scholarships.\n\nWILSON]: Well, I think Emilie and Becky--Emilie and Becky I know were on\nscholarships. And that's 1967, 1968.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, they probably weren't on official athletic scholarships.\n\nWILSON: Yeah, maybe not. But I know, because Becky was a really good friend of\nmine. I haven't talked to her in a number of years, but I'm sure that she would\nlove to talk to you.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah, she's one, and Emilie, I want to talk to. Because that's\nwhat's not clear to me, because we're trying to do women's intercollegiate\nathletics. Now, what you were doing would be called extramural.\n\nWILSON: Yeah, I would say so.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Not intercollegiate, see?\n\nWILSON: No, uh-uh.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Because you weren't recognized by the university. You didn't\nreally have a team, in the sense of a coach.\n\nWILSON: I think I'm going to cry.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Because with the extramural, anybody could come out and play.\nTheoretically. But when you have a team, you've got to try out for the team, and\nyou've got to be coached, and you may be rejected. Well, when that whole concept of--\n\nWILSON: Okay, I get the picture.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: --of extramural--\n\nWILSON: Yeah. I get the picture.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So, that's what you were playing. Okay, well, then, that pretty\nmuch confirms what I thought about the atmosphere. But tell me then again\nnow--okay, Shirley tells you that there's a tournament and she thinks you ought\nto play in it. Is that right? But there are others going with--\n\nWILSON: And they probably paid something for us to go, because I didn't have any\nmoney. So, I'm sure they paid some way.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, sometimes Shirley paid for it. (laughs)  ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=600.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30529/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n\nWILSON: Really? I don't know.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah.\n\nWILSON: I don't know. That's interesting. I'd like to know the answer to that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And so she drove you to the tournament?\n\nWILSON: I don't remember.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You don't remember that?\n\nWILSON: I don't think she went. I don't remember her being there. But, anyway,\nit was a really fun experience. But that's it. That's the beginning and the end.\nAnd I really don't have anything to add to it. And what do I feel about it? I\nfeel really cheated. One hundred percent. And honestly, it's too bad.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: It is!\n\nWILSON: But you know, it's so great that they have the opportunities they have\nnow. I'm really happy. I'm happy to support the tennis team. Because I really\nlike Gretchen.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: She was one of my students.\n\nWILSON: So, it's fun that I can help a little bit, that I'm in a position to do\nthat. And I love helping. Of course, I had a great experience at Trinity on a\nsocial scale, something I'd really never had before. And so tennis was really on\na back burner for me, because I was experiencing so many other things that I had\nnever experienced.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And what did you major in?\n\nWILSON: Physical Education.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And then my other question was, did you in your mind have an\nintention to go out and make a career of doing something in physical--\n\nWILSON: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was going to be a teacher. And when I graduated, I\ndid teach and coach tennis.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And where did you do that?\n\nWILSON: Here. And that was great. Walked right into a job. The dean here helped\nme. What was his name?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Bruce Thomas?\n\nWILSON: Maybe. He was so nice. I liked him so much.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah. You mean the academic dean or the--?\n\nWILSON: No, I can't remember which one it was.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Or the dean of student life?\n\nWILSON: Student life, probably. It wasn't Coleen (SP). I don't know what\nposition it was. But yeah, it was the Dean of Student Life. And he couldn't have\nbeen nicer and really directed me in getting a job. (laughs) I didn't know how\nto get a job. So, anyway, yeah, I got a job teaching physical education at Lee\nHigh School, but then I went to Roosevelt and was the tennis coach and started a\nteam there. That was a great experience. That was the direction I was going to\ngo in my entire life. I love sports. And my mother--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And did the physical education courses and so forth that you took,\ndo you think that helped?\n\nWILSON: Sure, prepared me for all that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Would Shirley teach most of those classes?\n\nWILSON: Oh, yeah. She taught all of them, I think. Well, there was Wheeler. I\ncan't remember what he taught--maybe swimming or something? I don't know. But\nanyway, no, it was great. Yeah, I loved her classes.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Tell me a little bit more now of what you have done afterwards.\n\nWILSON: Since then? Well, so I played professional tennis, and wasn't that good\nbut I enjoyed playing. And then I got better in senior tennis, so I played a lot\nof senior tennis. But sports has always been my passion. Except when I was\ndating in college. (laughs). But then I've started--my main passion now is\nreally girls participating in a variety of sports, not being great at something\nbut just the opportunity--low income, underprivileged kids, girls nine to 12. I\nhave a program in Buffalo that they come out and experience. Actually, it's this\ncoming weekend. I'll be in Buffalo on Saturday for this program. About 250 kids\nwill come out and play about eight different sports. So that's going to be a\nprogram that's growing. And our foundation is involved with sports. And so it's\nsomething that continues in my life, to give back in in the sports world.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And could you give me some like documentation of that? And do you\nhave a brochure or some kind of CV (Curriculum Vitae)?\n\nWILSON: Yeah. I can send you something on that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Because one of my questions that I wanted to ask, and I will ask\nmore of the ones that came after you, and this probably isn't as relevant to\nyou, but what I was going to ask them is, did playing athletics have any impact\non your life, in terms ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=900.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30529/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of--\n\nWILSON: (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And of course I was thinking more of playing on a team and that,\nand you didn't have that experience. But would you say though in in the more\ngeneral context that your participation in athletics and that has added\nsomething to your life, in terms of who you are--\n\nWILSON: Well, yeah. You might say--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And your accomplishments.\n\nWILSON: --impacted my life magnificently. First of all, I met my husband through\ntennis. If he had not seen me playing tennis, he would never have wanted to even\nmeet me. So that changed both of our lives. We played a lot of tennis together,\nEurope, all over. Anyway. So that was definitely a landmark moment in my life on\na tennis court and through sports. And then, of course, my giving back in\nsports. And not just youth sports, but we started a women's team in Austria, and\nright now about 280 75-and-over women have participated in that event. So sports\nhas been absolutely a major part of my participation in life, as well as giving\nback, as well as meeting my husband. And also, it teaches you so much about how\nto live a life.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay. That's what I'm--\n\nWILSON: And everyone talks about that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: In what way do you think that participating in athletics versus\nsomebody who doesn't ever do that, what does that add to your life?\n\nWILSON: Well, I think that particularly now what they're doing, like First Tee,\nwhat they're doing, it's about building character, not about being a--it's about\ndoing the best you can do, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to be the\nbest. And to build so many other aspects of your personality. Becoming aware of\ncharacter, of honoring your teammates, of winning, accepting winning, accepting\nlosing, and so on and so forth. Everyone talks about these. But I think what's\ngreat now is they're talked about more, and they're part of programs. I think\nthat the programs I was in as a kid, for me, it was all about winning. It wasn't\nabout sportsmanship. Even though one time I did get a sportsmanship award. But\nit was about really--I loved competing. But competing gives organizers and\nteachers the opportunity to teach so much more, and I think that's one of the\ngreat things. First Tee is a great example of it. Girls on the Run is a great\nnational program that is a great example of teaching character-building. So I\nlove the direction sports has gone in, in that way. And that's what my program\nis about in Buffalo, is about having--and we bring in an Olympian for these\ngirls to meet and talk with, and learning her story, how she got to that\npinnacle of her life, and what hard work--it demands hard work, and et cetera.\nEverybody understands, I think, what sports can do for you, as far as we\nunderstand it. But I don't think like the kids that come to this program that\nreally haven't had the opportunity to participate in a variety of sports--and\nthen they go back to their communities, and they're very underserved, and they\ndon't have the opportunities that we had. Because transportation is a big\nproblem. So I'm involved in all of that. It's fun to be involved with it.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I played sports in high school, and I often think about how just\nbeing on a team, that there were so many of these guys that I wouldn't have ever\nknown. I wouldn't have been friends with them. But we bonded in a way that--and\nI had to push my body like I never had pushed it before. I thought I had, but I\nhad never--but a very limited experience, but I know it had a great impact on\nme. And it always bothered me, even in college, where ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1200.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30529/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I got these\ncoaches that didn't roll the ball out and not--that let the ones who were good\nplay and let the others stand. That really bothered me, because I felt like\nthat's not what you should be doing. You should be encouraging these people and\nteaching them skills. Now, at Trinity, as I observed, I think they did. Later,\nas I got to watch Jim Potter and all those others, that you'd watch them out\nthere and they weren't just standing around smoking and letting them hit the\nball; they were out there. You could see them trying to show them how to do\nthings. And they interacted with them personally. Well, this is exactly I was\nhopeful that what I would get. And it really would be very helpful to me if I\ncould have more documentation--\n\nWILSON: Yeah. I'll send you some information.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I mean, this sounds wonderful. And this is one of the things that\nwe want to do, is to not only talk about the women who they were players, but\nwhat they did with their lives. And you're from this era of 1960s and 1970s;\nit's a blank. It's a blank.\n\nWILSON: Yeah. So (INAUDIBLE) helpful.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And we're really talking about the pioneers. About the pioneer women.\n\nWILSON: I wasn't even a pioneer. (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: The interesting thing is that--and I've just learned this from all\nthe history that I've done--is that the women's organizations, the national\nones, they were very much against competition. That sports were to be enjoyable.\nThey were to be--\n\nWILSON: Who are the national organizations?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, there's dozens of--that go back to 1900, okay? And by the time\nyou were around, there was a women's division of sports and this AIAW,\nAssociation of Intercollegiate Athletics for Women, came. It kind of come out in\nthe 1960s, just about the time you were here. And you just missed the bit of\nwhere they--by the time you graduated, they were beginning to--we actually had,\nwith a \"T\" in front--Texas had a state organization before some of the others\nhad, and they were starting to have tournaments in different sports, and tennis\nwas one of the first ones that they began to have tournaments in. But their\nphilosophy was they looked at the men's program, which was competitive, and win\nat all costs and a lot of brutality, football and all that. And so they were the\none--they really resisted women being competitive. And so what they did was they\nwould have what they called play days and they would let--you let all these\nwomen come together from different schools, but they'd choose up sides and play.\nThere was competition, but there wasn't real competition.\n\nWILSON: But there were exceptions, like what's her name? Um, the Babe Zahedras\n(SP) (INAUDIBLE).\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, but they were playing more professional and so forth.\n\nWILSON: Right.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But not at the intercollegiate level, okay?\n\nWILSON: There's always exceptions, though.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right. But by and large--and they even had--and I had never heard\nof this--they even played by telegraph.\n\nWILSON: Played what?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Sports.\n\nWILSON: By telegraph?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: By telegraph. Let's say something like free (SP) shot basketballs.\nYou'd play in San Antonio. You record what (laughs)--\n\nWILSON: Oh, really? Wow!\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: They'd play in Buffalo. They did. They played different--\n\nWILSON: That's cool. Why don't we do that now? I think that's a great idea! (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I know. And the last thing, the last little story is that--because\nI've really tried to get down to the level of what women were thinking with--I\ndon't know if you've--\n\nWILSON: We were too accepting.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: --you've heard of--oh, Doug, come on--well, the woman here that\nwas so important with our intercollegiate athletics, she went to Baylor, and her\ncoach was named Olga Fallen. And when she came back to coach here at Trinity,\nshe had to play Baylor a number of times, and it was like playing against her\nold coach. And of course they did--\n\nWILSON: What year was this?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: This would be the 1970s, early 1970s. Come on, I know--I'm sorry.\nMy short-term memory. I've done all the work on her. I'll come--Libby. Libby\nJohnson. And so she had said in one ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1500.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30529/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of her interviews, she says, \"I\nreally want to beat my teacher.\" She says, 'She taught me all I know about\nbasketball. Oh, I'd love to beat her.\" Well, they did beat University of Texas\nonce, but they hadn't beaten Baylor. So any rate, I got in contact with\nBaylor--and some of the scores, we don't have, because they weren't keeping\nrecords--and they had some scores. And she sent me a clipping from the Baylor\nnewspaper, student newspaper, and this is what her coach said in the paper. She\nsaid, \"We're playing Trinity tomorrow.\" And she said, \"They don't have a player\nabove five-nine in basketball.\" And she says, \"I'm not going to start my\nsix-foot-three player unless I really need them.\"\n\nWILSON: Oh, really? (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Now, would you ever hear a man's team saying that?\n\nWILSON: No. Sometimes you do. It's a wrong thing to say. (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But that was reflective more of her generation, of the coach. She\nwanted to win. She said if she needed her, she'd play her. But it was the sense\nthat, \"Well, it'll be a more even game if I don't put her in.\"\n\nWILSON: I think it's sort of egotistical. (laughs) It's pretty egotistical.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: \"I'm not going to let them beat me, but--\"\n\nWILSON: It sort of knocked the other team, that's for sure.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I know. But I mean, they never saw that.\n\nWILSON: Really?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, no. It was just a little thing in it.\n\nWILSON: Oh, I see.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And I think she was meaning to be-- she actually said in the\nparagraph before, \"They're a great team.\" And they had a good record the year\nbefore. So she wasn't kind of knocking them; she was just saying, \"They don't\nhave any height and so--\"\n\nWILSON: Make it fair.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: \"We'll make it fair.\"\n\nWILSON: \"We'll make it more even.\" Unless they get behind.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Is there anything else?\n\nWILSON: No. And I'll send you that. And we'll scan that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I'll go do that. And I do thank you so much.\n\nWILSON: And I'll send you information on my program, Western New York Girls in Sports.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay. Well, we didn't take that long.\n\nWILSON: No!\n\n(END INTERVIEW)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1800.0,2100.0"}]},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30530","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Mary_McLean_Wilson.xml Alt [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/transcript/30530/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":null,"format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=0.0,1938.0"}]},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Mary_McLean_Wilson.xml [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Introduction","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=0.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: All right. We've started recording. This is October the 16th, 2017. I'm Douglas Brackenridge, Professor Emeritus at Trinity University. And I'm talking to Mary McLean Wilson. How do you spell the McLean?\n\nWILSON: M-C capital L-E-A-N, like the Marrs-McClean Building, which I'm probably related to someplace. (laughs)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=0.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mary McLean Wilson's Journey to Trinity","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=45.0,139.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: So, start out by telling me, how did you get to Trinity?\n\nWILSON: You know, what happened was my mother took me on a little college tour. And I really wanted to go to Corpus, because a friend of mine played tennis down there, and her mother was the coach and the physical education department head. And so I went down there. I played tennis for them just to show them I could play. And it's really where I wanted to go. But my mother was so worried about me going down there. So our next stop was here, at Trinity. And my mother absolutely of course fell in love with this campus and said to me, \"You're going here.\" So, I came here. I loved it. I of course was a physical education major, loved Shirley Rushing, who is Poteet now, correct? Her last name?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=45.0,139.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Wilson's Hometown and College Search","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=139.0,259.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: Let me back up just a little bit, as to--where did you come from?\n\nWILSON: Fort Worth, Texas.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Fort Worth, Texas? And you were out looking for a school where you could play tennis, is that right?\n\nWILSON: That was my dream. Because I played tennis in high school. And I started playing tennis when I was like 12, and it was really the love of my life at that time in my life.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=139.0,259.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Women's Tennis Team at Trinity ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=259.0,703.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: So, when you came, there was no women's tennis team?\n\nWILSON: No. So, I really wasn't even playing tennis.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And you graduated what year now?\n\nWILSON: 1967.\n\nBrackenridge: This was what year? \n\nWilson: 1967 I graduated. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=259.0,703.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The One Tournament","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=703.0,961.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: I'm getting too--well, I get them--to get the years focused, whether you actually played--it looks like you played in the springtime. Is that when the tournament seemed to be more in the spring than in the fall?\n\nWILSON: Are you kidding? You're asking me?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah.\n\nWILSON: (laughs) First of all, you mean the tournament.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: The tournament for you.\n\nWILSON: Not the tournaments.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=703.0,961.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Social Life and Career Opportunities ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=961.0,1082.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Wilson: I had a great experience at Trinity especially in the social aspect. Tennis was really on the back burner for me because I was experiencing in so many other things I had never experienced. \n\nBrackenridge: What was your major\n\nWilson: Physical education\n\nBrackenridge: Did you have plans to make a career out of that\n\nWilson: Oh yes I wanted to be a teacher ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=961.0,1082.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Wilson's Sport Impact After Trinity","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1082.0,1176.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: Tell me a little bit more now of what you have done afterwards.\n\nWILSON: Since then? Well, so I played professional tennis, and wasn't that good but I enjoyed playing. And then I got better in senior tennis, so I played a lot of senior tennis. But sports has always been my passion. Except when I was dating in college. (laughs). But then I've started--my main passion now is really girls participating in a variety of sports, not being great at something but just the opportunity--low income, underprivileged kids, girls nine to 12. I have a program in Buffalo that they come out and experience. Actually, it's this coming weekend. I'll be in Buffalo on Saturday for this program. About 250 kids will come out and play about eight different sports. So that's going to be a program that's growing. And our foundation is involved with sports. And so it's something that continues in my life, to give back in in the sports world.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1082.0,1176.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How Sports Have Impacted Wilson's Life","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1176.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: Because one of my questions that I wanted to ask, and I will ask more of the ones that came after you, and this probably isn't as relevant to you, but what I was going to ask them is, did playing athletics have any impact on your life, in terms of--\n\nWILSON: (laughs)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And of course I was thinking more of playing on a team and that, and you didn't have that experience. But would you say though in in the more general context that your participation in athletics and that has added something to your life, in terms of who you are--\n\nWILSON: Well, yeah. You might say--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And your accomplishments.\n\nWILSON: --impacted my life magnificently.\n\nWilson: Ya it impacted my life magnificently. I met my husband through tennis if he had not seen me playing he would not want to meet me. That impacted both of our lives. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1176.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Competition in Women's Sports","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1500.0,1795.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":" BRACKENRIDGE:..even in college, where I got these coaches that didn't roll the ball out and not--that let the ones who were good play and let the others stand. That really bothered me, because I felt like that's not what you should be doing. You should be encouraging these people and teaching them skills. Now, at Trinity, as I observed, I think they did. Later, as I got to watch Jim Potter and all those others, that you'd watch them out there and they weren't just standing around smoking and letting them hit the ball; they were out there. You could see them trying to show them how to do things. And they interacted with them personally. Well, this is exactly I was hopeful that what I would get. And it really would be very helpful to me if I could have more documentation--","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1500.0,1795.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Conversation about Libby Johnson","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1795.0,1938.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108/index/48415/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: ibby Johnson. And so she had said in one of her interviews, she says, \"I 00:30:00really want to beat my teacher.\" She says, 'She taught me all I know about basketball. Oh, I'd love to beat her.\" Well, they did beat University of Texas once, but they hadn't beaten Baylor. So any rate, I got in contact with Baylor--and some of the scores, we don't have, because they weren't keeping records--and they had some scores. And she sent me a clipping from the Baylor newspaper, student newspaper, and this is what her coach said in the paper. She said, \"We're playing Trinity tomorrow.\" And she said, \"They don't have a player above five-nine in basketball.\" And she says, \"I'm not going to start my six-foot-three player unless I really need them.\" ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46052/file/119108#t=1795.0,1938.0"}]}]}]}