{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/wd3pv6c17f/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Terri Hailey "]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Terri Hailey. Trinity University Women's Intercollegiate Athletics Oral History Project. UA-OH001-020. Coates Library Special Collections and Archives. Trinity University (San Antonio, Tex.).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThis interview is open for research. Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Trinity University Special Collections and Archives.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Participants"]},"value":{"en":["Terri Hailey  (Interviewee)","R. Douglas Brackenridge (Interviewer)","Jessica Neal (Interviewer)","Sharp Copy Transcription (Transcriber)","Index - Trinity University History of Sport (SPMT 3314) class (Writer of accompanying material)","archives@trinity.edu (Metadata contact)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2018-01-12 (Created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["OH001-20 (cms record id)","UA-OH001 (collection call number)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Women's Athletics Oral History Project (is part of)"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. It is the responsibility of the researcher to locate and obtain permission from the copyright owner or his or her heirs for any other use, such as reproduction and publication.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eThis interview is open for research. Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Trinity University Special Collections and Archives.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/656/small/data?1626702497","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Interview with Terri Hailey - Trinity University Women's Athletics Oral History Project"]},"duration":4410.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/656/small/data?1626702497","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4HHIj1ljBs","type":"Video","format":"video/youtube","duration":4410.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Terri_Hailey__(1).xml [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: This is January the 12th, 2018. I'm R. Douglas Brackenridge,\nProfessor Emeritus at Trinity University. We'll be interviewing Terri Hailey,\nwho's the class of 1981, a Trinity athlete. Accompanying in the interview is Jes\nNeal, our university archivist, and Meredith Elsik, who is one of the library\nstaff. So, let me just pick up on what you were saying before we started\nrecording, about the fact that there's so little information available about the\ntime period--the 1960s, the 1970s. Your comments there, can you pick up what you\nwere saying?\n\nHAILEY: Well, I think there wasn't much of an emphasis on athletics, except for\ntennis, which at the time, tennis was Division I. So athletics was just a small\npart. And during those years, I think they had been building the program, but I\ndon't think they really even started basketball, softball, until a couple years\nbefore I got here, maybe 1972. So I know we had the record books. I know that\nthey probably kept some stats. I'm not sure what happened to those. I know when\nwe played softball, we had a book. We had all those. So who knows what happened\nto them. But I know that that some of the stats they kept--like in basketball\nthey kept points, rebounds, games that you--single season records, single game\nrecords. But there were some stats that they keep now that they didn't keep\nthen. Like shots, whatever.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So far, what I found is it's sometimes for the seasons. If you go\nto the Trinitonian and the Mirage and that sort of thing, they're very mixed as\nto what you find.\n\nHAILEY: What's funny--you'll see my Hall of Fame picture, softball; that was not\na Trinity picture. They had no pictures. I had some personal photos, but not\nplaying. There was no video. There was no any of that. And so basically they\ntook a picture of when I played slow pitch softball and then just put a Trinity\nuniform on that picture.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Was it Trinity taking the picture or was it a newspaper?\n\nHAILEY: Well, it was a photo that somebody had taken when I was playing slow\npitch, and then for the Hall of Fame, they put a Trinity jersey on that. But\nthey had no pictures of any of us playing.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, that's one of the things I'm trying to hope we can recover,\nbecause that was one of the problems with softball is they didn't play at home.\nThere were no home games.\n\nHAILEY: Exactly. Yep.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, let's let's go back and start. We got a few questions here.\nAnd you feel free--sidebars or other things you want to say, you're not tied to\nthis. But we like to ask, why did you come to Trinity? How did you end up at\nTrinity? And to what extent did athletics affect that choice?\n\nHAILEY: Okay. So, this is kind of a funny story. So, my brother went to Rice\nUniversity, and then he went to Harvard Law. And he's seven years older than me.\nI looked at Emory; I looked at Rollins in Florida. I looked a lot of different\nplaces. And there were a lot of institutions I could have gone to with either\nsome academic or some athletic or maybe full athletic, including the university\nin my hometown in Missouri, which I wanted to get out of my parents' house and\ngrow up a little bit and go somewhere else. And so my brother brought up\nTrinity. And I'd looked at many other schools--University of Mizzou, different\nplaces--and just wasn't really comfortable yet, hadn't found anything that I\nloved. And so he said, \"Listen, Terri, Trinity's right in the middle of San\nAntonio. It's a bigger city, more going on, great Mexican food, really warm,\nyou're close to the beach.\" I think at some point he mentioned the academics,\nbut I kind of quit listening by then. I was like, \"Sign me up.\" So, my parents\nbrought me on a trip to visit Trinity and also TCU (Texas Christian University).\nAnd I think my mother wanted me to go to TCU because that was kind of our church\nschool and it was an eight-hour drive from where I grew up and they thought they\ncould come watch. And I could have played tennis and basketball there, I think.\nSo I came to Trinity. And it ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=0.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was raining cats and dogs the day I came\nhere. Not a rainy person; I love the sun. Loved it immediately. Absolutely loved\nit. Knew from the get-go that's where I wanted to go, okay? Even after the hard\nham and cheese roll sandwich at the Rat Factory, as we called it, or whatever.\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: No, I loved it. Knew I might have been able to play JV (junior varsity)\ntennis here but not good enough for varsity or whatever, I didn't think. I was\nsupposed to have a tryout. It was raining. Whatever. And so then I went and\nlooked at TCU, and I also I liked TCU, but I just loved Trinity. I immediately\nknew that's where I wanted to come. And honestly, my dad had just lost his job.\nHis boss was an elected official. My dad was 50 years old. And he said to me,\n\"Look, I want you to go wherever you want to go.\" So my parents, when we were\ngrowing up, everything that my mother made, I think they lived on, and\neverything that my dad made went for our education. So that was vitally\nimportant to them. And I mean, what a sacrifice. That's what they wanted. And so\nhe said, \"I don't care where you go and I don't care how much money it is. We\ncan afford it. Don't worry about me not working.\" And he said, \"I don't care\nwhat you do for a living when you get out of there. I don't have any\nexpectations for you to be a doctor just because we sent you to a private\nschool.\" He said, \"There's nothing wrong with being a trash collector, and if\nthat's what you end up doing, be the best you can be.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's a great parent.\n\nHAILEY: Yeah, and my dad worked until he was 90 years old.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So athletics was in the picture in your life?\n\nHAILEY: Oh yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You were going to do something.\n\nHAILEY: But yet in high school, I was only able to play two years of basketball.\nWe did not have fast pitch softball. I played tennis and golf, ran a little\ntrack, because that's what we had. So my expectations when I came to Trinity was\nthat I was not playing anything. So I came here purely at the time for\nacademics. So it's kind of funny how that all worked out.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And just a side question, were you playing the half-court basketball?\n\nHAILEY: No. No, no, no. No, we were not.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You were doing full court.\n\nHAILEY: I was in Missouri, where in I think Texas, Oklahoma, and Iowa, they were\nplaying that half court. And we actually went and played in some tournament, and\nI was like, \"Oh, this is craziness.\" Craziness. And what was the point of that?\nThat women weren't in good enough shape or--?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, the whole background is, yeah, that women, they were not\nsupposed to be able to handle the kind of stress of contact. And having contact,\nthat was considered bad. And safety. You know, everything else. And that it was\neven decorum. It was a little bit more polite kind of game.\n\nHAILEY: Right. And really the whole point of playing basketball for me was the\nrunning. I loved the running. But my grandmother had actually played growing up\nand there were pictures of her with bloomers on. But my mother had no opportunity.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So, but did you feel at high school--was there any feeling that\nbasketball and that wasn't something for a woman or for a girl to play?\n\nHAILEY: No, no. I didn't. I didn't feel that way. And my mother certainly--when\nI was 10 years old, she was \"You can play anything you want to play. You can be\nanything you want to be.\" And my brother was a big advocate. So, he just\nretired. He was an attorney in DC (District of Columbia). And when he moved to\nhis past current law firm, he said, \"There are two offices I want you to see.\nAnd the one office I want you to see is the guy who's responsible for Title IX.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Is that right?\n\nHAILEY: Yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But as the peers and people around you, did you pick up any of\nthat that?\n\nHAILEY: Not really.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Some of the ones we've interviewed said they got ridiculed a bit\nby their--because they grew up in Texas.\n\nHAILEY: Really?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah. Their peers were--\"You're odd because you're wanting to do\nthat.\" No, none of that?\n\nHAILEY: No. I mean, I will say the emphasis was still on boys' sports.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So when you came to Trinity, then if you weren't really expecting\nto play, how did you get then involved in in sports?\n\nHAILEY: Okay. So, I lived in Shook. No, what's the big dorm off Shook, I guess?\nThe taller one.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: McClean? No?\n\nHAILEY: No.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, the high rise.\n\nHAILEY: Yeah, the high rise.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Thomas.\n\nELSIK: Thomas?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, it wasn't Thomas. Oh, yeah, it would be Thomas. But Thomas\nare high-rise, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=300.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"right?\n\nHAILEY: Yeah.\n\nELSIK: It was just (INAUDIBLE).\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Then what's the other one?\n\nELSIK: Lightner?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Lightner.\n\nHAILEY: Yeah. So I was in one of the five- or six-story buildings. And at the\ntime, before football took that over, there was a softball field there, a little\npractice softball field, and they put up a flyer--\"Hey, tryouts for softball.\"\nAnd I met a woman on the team that was going to be a senior when I first got\nhere, Ann Burbridge (SP), and she was one of the starting pitchers. And I met\nher, and I think I was looking at the tryouts or something, and she said, \"Oh,\nyou've absolutely got to come, it's great.\" She was very positive and kind of\ntalked me into it. And I said, \"Well, okay.\" You know, I haven't really played\nfast pitch. So I go to the tryouts and make the team, I guess. And that year, we\nhad some really good senior athletes. In fact, when I played basketball, I\nplayed with four seniors. And I don't think I even realized how good I had it\nuntil the next year, and then I went, \"Oh!\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Can you just rattle off a few of those names?\n\nHAILEY: Uh, Jill Herenberg (SP), and I can't remember her married name now, Val\nStein (SP), Patti McBee. Anyhow, so we were standing there, and about the second\nday--so Ann (SP) was the pitcher, I think--so about the second day, the coach,\nLibby Johnson, said, \"Okay, who has pitched before? I need another pitcher.\"\nSilence. She asked that about three times. About the fourth time, I'm like, \"Oh\ngreat, I'm a freshman.\" I go, \"Well, when I was in fifth grade.\" So she said,\n\"Okay, well, let's see it.\" And I go, \"Okay.\" So I threw a few, and then she\nwalked up to me, and she had a book on how to threw the screwball, how to throw\nthe rise, how to throw the drop. She goes, \"Here you go. You're our backup\npitcher.\" So the first tournament we went to wasn't going too well in the first\ninning. Now, this is back when we played DI (Division I) schools. And so\n(laughs) we were a little overmatched anyhow, especially having to have nine\npeople out there. And I will tell you that I do remember vividly I think Coach\nJohnson--we called her Miss J--she went to Baylor for her Master's. And when we\nwent to play Baylor, the Baylor coach said to her, \"Oh, bringin' your little\ngeniuses out here? Aren't they going to be studying? How can they play\nsoftball?\" So she got a lot of comments like that. But anyhow, in the first or\nsecond inning of the first game, things weren't going well. And so she said to\nme, \"I need you to go in and pitch.\" \"Okay.\" (laughs) All right! So I went in\nand pitched. And then I was the starting pitcher. And here's this poor senior,\nAnn (SP). She was very gracious. She was very nice to me, helped me out and\nwhatever. And I will tell you that Libby Johnson made the mistake I think of\ncoming to the mound once when I'd walked a couple batters, and she said, \"So,\nyou don't really like me coming out here.\" And I said, \"No.\" And I'm very laid\nback and very--I said \"No, I'm just mad at myself. I'll get it figured out.\" So\nshe only came out to the mound one other time in the three years she was here,\nmy junior year, and when she came out she said, \"So how was lunch today? Did you\ngo swimming?\" And then I kind of started laughing. But she was actually giving\nme some feedback on how she wanted me to pitch someone. But I will tell you\nthat, at the time, one of the pitchers for Texas Women's University was the best\npitcher in the country, and she's the first pitcher that I faced batting. And I\nwas the leadoff batter, and I thought, \"Oh my goodness, I am out of my league.\"\nFortunately, I figured out later she was the best, and I asked for her advice,\nand she would tell me how to pitch people. And I said, \"Well, I understand that,\nbut how do you throw the ball 80 miles an hour?\" And Libby told me once when we\nplayed A\u0026M (Agriculture and Mechanical)--and they were the number one team in\nthe country--\"Well, throw the ball and get out of the way.\" Well, because\nthey're going to hit everybody. So, you know, I tried to throw some junk. But I\nlaugh and say this--I'm very competitive, and I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=600.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did not like people\nleaning over the plate, so I may have plonked a few people. And back in those\ndays, which is kind of scary now, we didn't wear helmets. I got hit in the head\nsliding back into first one day. So that's how I got into softball. And then was\nasked to go out for basketball. That was the natural progression. And at the\ntime, Libby Johnson was coaching four sports, she was teaching 12 hours, and she\nwas the assistant A.D. (Athletic Director). And she was making less money than a\nhigh school coach. And so she was trying to get me to come out for volleyball\nand I was like, \"Eh, I would like to, but I also need to go to class.\" I think I\nplayed softball, basketball, and a couple years I ran track, and I was like, \"I\ncan't do it all and I'm not sure I'd be any good at it.\" And Gene Norris tried\nto get me to come out for men's golf. But you could do that back then. There's\nno way you could do that now. I mean, you've got to pick one sport and pretty\nmuch focus on that. So that I think was what I enjoyed the most. You could do a\ncouple of different things.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Let me back up with a couple questions. One is, could you describe\nthat softball field to me? I've read so much about it. Could you describe it?\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: Well, there was a little backstop, and it was mostly grass. There was a\nlittle bit of dirt there. We did not have a pitching machine like all the\nbig-time schools, so I pitched to everyone, and then when it came time for me to\nhit, they're--I mean--Ann (SP) the first year pitched me, but after that, we\ndidn't really have anybody that could bring any heat. And we didn't get a\npitching machine until my senior year.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, the stories I have--that the field sloped and it had bushes\nand--am I exaggerating? Are they exaggerating?\n\nHAILEY: No, no, no. And then I think it was a little bit short sometimes. It's\nlike when we would go to Sam Houston and play, we played right by the prison,\nand if you hit the ball over the field, it was in the prison or it was a double.\nBut it did. So we went to McAllister, and played on one of those fields. Being\nfrom Missouri, I was used to dirt, and this was a little bit of sand on a hard\nsurface. But yeah, that's where we played our home games. And there were very\nfew home games. Because then we would go to tournaments. So we'd go to big\ntournaments. We'd play five games a day. We'd play Oklahoma State, TWU (Texas\nWomen's University). University of Texas didn't have a team then. Baylor. All\nthe big Division I schools. I think the only other D III (Division III) school\nat the time was Incarnate Word. And we would go over to Saint Mary's and play at\ntheir place. But yeah, we had four or five home games, like home games. Which\nwas obviously a Title IX violation, right? Because if they had the boys'\nbaseball field--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, they were supposed to have equal facilities. You were\nsupposed to have equal facilities. And again, what I picked up from all my\nreading is that sometimes the women would go over to the men's field to do some\npracticing, and they had to get off if the guys wanted it. But was that field\nthere when you were there? Probably not.\n\nHAILEY: We never used the men's field, but I will tell you when we played\nbasketball, we always had to practice at 2:00, which was kind of a problem. And\nwhen I'm telling you this, I'm trying not to complain. I'm going to tell you all\nthe things that happened that are way different now, and then some good, some\nnot so good. So we had to practice between 2:00 and 4:00. And when I was a\nsenior, I would run track between 2:00 and 4:00 and then we'd practice softball\nbetween 4:00 and 6:00. The men, Pete Murphy was the coach. The men always had it\nat 4:00 in the gym. However, if it rained, then tennis came in, because they\nwere Division I. And we all wore the same uniforms for volleyball, softball,\nbasketball. It's all the same uniform.\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: Because tennis had all the money. And I can remember Emilie was the\ncoach and she gave me a pair of Nike shoes that had Trinity on the back and I\nthought I was just about the coolest person around, to get those shoes.\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: We had the second gym at the time that we could sometimes play in, and\nthere were about--there were a few dead boards. You'd dribble the ball and then--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right, and I played on those. Also, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=900.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"if you had games\nthe same night, you had to play first.\n\nHAILEY: Correct. Absolutely correct.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And when that conference was formed, that was not the way it was\nto be. They were supposed to rotate. And that was the only thing that was changed.\n\nHAILEY: Really? Interesting.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That got changed. They amended that after about a year, because\nagain was the pressure was, \"Well, nobody's going to want to watch these women\"\nand so forth. But Dr. Winipress was the one who formed TIAA, and that was 1976,\nso that was after Title IV. And they tried to do everything to make it equal.\nBut they changed that.\n\nHAILEY: Interesting. Well, what was interesting too is we rarely traveled with\nthe guys. We would go to Tarleton State maybe on a Monday night and play. And\nit's funny what you remember, but so we would go up and we would play first, and\nthe guys would go eat, and then they'd come over and they'd play, and then we'd\nfinish playing and we'd wait for them to finish playing, we'd get on the bus,\nand then we'd go to McDonald's. So we had the one meal; they had the two.\nBecause I can remember that we all got the same thing. And Libby Johnson would\nalways go in for me and get--I wasn't really a Coke person or anything, and she\ngoes, \"I'll go in and get you some tea.\" That's kind of the one thing she would\nspoil me doing that. But, yeah, I rarely remember ever traveling with them. When\nwe would go to Sul Ross or play these other places, we'd always--the one good\nthing is we didn't fly like they do now, but when we went, we weren't in a van.\nWe were in a huge bus, and there was 12 of us.\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: Spreading out! We had card tables. Oh, it was awesome! And we were fed\nreally well.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So we're talking about 1977 on.\n\nHAILEY: 1977 to 1981, yep.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Things had improved by then, by the time you got here. Things were\non the upswing. It was a lot worse than that--they were driving in old\nautomobiles, and the one told us that the coach said, \"I'm tired, you drive\ncoming back.\"\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But interested to know that. You've already given us some good\nthings, but could we just focus on Libby?\n\nHAILEY: Sure.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And I had just one question was, I didn't understand that she was\never coaching track.\n\nHAILEY: So, my freshman year, she coached four sports. Then my sophomore year,\nshe was down to basketball and softball. Just those two.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, okay. By that time what's-her-name had come.\n\nHAILEY: Right. But interesting about that--we had some injuries in track and I'd\nkind of been talked into running--is that Libby showed up on her own on the\nweekend and gave us some feedback. And gave us enough really good feedback that\npeople were winning events they never would have won. And nothing about the\ntrack coach; she was I think more of a professor, more of a teacher.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: She had never coached before she came to Trinity. She had never\ncoached. But I'm thinking back. Well, we know there wasn't a track team until\n1975 because that's when they first--but Libby wasn't involved in the coaching\nof that, I don't think.\n\nHAILEY: I think she was my freshman year, when I did not participate. But like I\nsaid, then my sophomore year, she was down to two sports, and she basically\nasked me, \"Hey, maybe you should go out and support the new coach.\" Then on her\nown, she came over. And for me, I was like, \"Well, running is great, but\nshouldn't you be after a ball or something?\"\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right. I think that's why they only would have three or four women\nthat would play track. They could never get a team going, to participate in all\nthe events, because they didn't have enough people, because they didn't stick.\n\nHAILEY: My freshman year I was in my dorm room. Patti McBee comes and knocks on\nthe door and she's like, \"Hey, we're gonna run the 400 relay.\" I'm like, \"Well,\nthat's great. Here's some track shoes. Let's go.\" And she and Jill and somebody\nelse and I went over there. And we actually never practiced, never--we actually\nran--and I'm slow-- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1200.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we actually ran a faster time than they ran at\nconference that year, which is kind of funny. So that's kind of why I think we\ngot--I got pushed out a little bit for track the next year.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You've already given us some insight into Libby, into the\ndynamic--about her humor, about the way in which she coached. Any more insight?\nBecause you were with her at so many different sports.\n\nHAILEY: Oh, absolutely.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Were there things about her--? That's what we're trying to get at.\n\nHAILEY: Well, first of all, she taught me how to shoot. And I was never\ncomfortable being the shooter, but my freshman year, I was surrounded by such\ngreat players that they would just get me the ball. But after that I was\nbasically forced to shoot because we didn't have scorers. Not really something I\nwanted to do. I liked passing. I liked blocking shots. I didn't want to be the\nscorer. But that's the way it went. So she taught me how to score. And I can\ntell you some funny stories about Libby. So when I started, she was just on me\nconstantly, okay? And the four seniors went to her and said, \"Uch, you gotta\nleave Terri alone. I mean, come on, you're driving--she's cot complaining, but\nwe can't stand it. You're just on her all the time.\" And she said, \"Well, I\nthink she could be a decent player here. I'm going to be on her.\" And they said,\n\"Well, we don't know that it's really helping her. It might be making her more\nnervous. Who knows? Because you're constantly yelling at her.\" And so after\nthat, she tried a different tactic, and that tactic was--I can remember running\nsuicides, and she would say, \"Well, I'm pretty sure my grandmother could run\nfaster, but you know, maybe you'll get better.\"\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: And I think the second game I played as a freshman, we were at Schreiner\n(SP) and that's when you're shooting and you're looking into everybody waving\nand yelling. And it was coming down to the last few seconds of the game and we\nwere behind by one. And so we had all these plays set up and unfortunately for\neverybody, somebody missed a shot and I got the rebound and got fouled. And I'm\nsure they all went, \"Oh, great.\" Because it was a one-and-one and there was no\ntime left. So I made the one--I made the two shots, we ended up winning the\ngame, and the first thing she said to me was, \"Oh, I guess you think you're a\npretty hot freshman now?\"\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: \"No ma'am, I do not. I do not.\" But she taught me a lot. She taught me a\nlot. And I can remember she always knew--I mean, she expected a lot out of me.\nShe expected me to be the first one at practice. She expected me--I was the\ncaptain for three years. But yet she did a lot for me. I can remember coming\nover and shooting before a game and her saying, \"Hey, you weren't over here\nearlier,\" And I'm like, \"Oh, yeah, I basically have had the flu all day.\" And\nshe's like, \"Have you had any tea?\" Because I'm a big tea drinker. And I'm like,\n\"No.\" And so she ran and got the trainer and she goes, \"Go out to Wendy's or\nsomewhere and get her some tea and come back.\" And she said to me, she said,\n\"Okay, well, just let me know when you need to go get sick and I'll call a\ntimeout.\" \"Okay, that's what we'll do.\" But initially when I was a freshman, she\ncame to me and she said, \"Look, this is tough, starting a freshman. This\njunior's upset. What will you think when I start this junior and then I put you\nin after 30 seconds or a minute?\" And I go, \"I don't care. I don't care if I\nstart. I just want to play.\" And we went to Saint Mary's. She was very\nprotective. We got into a very rough basketball game I think down in Edinburg\nand she pulled us off the court. But we went over to Saint Mary's to play and\nsomething happened where she felt like things were not being fair--and I'll\nnever forget this because she said, \"We're getting screwed. This is a screw job!\"\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: And we're all like--you know. And immediately after the game, she said,\n\"Okay, for all of you who are going into this profession, that was totally\nunprofessional. You'll never see me to do it again. I was just very upset.\" And\nwe were like, \"Yeah, yeah, we got it, but you gotta have some passion.\" And even\nwhen I was a sophomore, we ended up--something happened to the schedule. We\nplayed TCU on a Friday night and then we had to go up and play ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1500.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in\nDallas on Saturday afternoon, so we actually had to fly. And so she only took\nseven players. That's all we could afford. And two of those players overslept,\nand she goes, \"Okay, we're leaving with five.\" And she made up some excuse about\nhaving to go to the gym and get the scorebook or something, and so we sent the\ntrainer running across campus to pull two more people out of bed, and they made\nit. But she was very discouraged after my junior year, I think, because--she\neven talked to me about transferring, and I told her, \"I came here for the\nacademics. I came here for the school. I didn't come here for the athletics.\"\nBut she was very frustrated about like, for instance, there were no unexcused\nabsences, so when we were gone on Friday, you had to be careful what professor\nyou took, because some of them were understanding and some of them gave quizzes.\nAnd if you took that person--I had to drop a political science class my first\nsemester because I didn't know about that. And I think she was very frustrated\nabout, you know, just nobody cared. Nobody seemed to care. Nobody would back us.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You mean nobody in terms of the faculty or administration?\n\nHAILEY: Faculty or even athletics. It was a man's world. And I think that's one\nthing that drove her out after my junior year. But, supportive of us. I mean, I\ncouldn't have asked--she was a good person, helped me. Became my advisor after\nmy first semester, when I mistakenly took five science classes. And then made\nsure that Shirley Rushing took me over my senior year when she was gone. And so\nwith Libby, I never worried about making her mad; I worried about her being\ndisappointed and her thinking I didn't respect her. I can remember perhaps\nmissing one of her classes. The only time I ever did, I missed a 9:00 class and\nI went to my 10:00, which she showed up for. And she didn't say anything, but I\njust knew what she thought, and so I never wanted to disappoint her. And one of\nher last games--it's kind of hard to go out and play really--you want to play\nreally well, and sometimes it's hard. And one of the last games, we played a\nweaker opponent. I was able to go out, score over 40 points, have over 20\nrebounds. And her comment to me of course was, \"Well, you could have played a\nlittle better defense. A little disappointed that the other girl scored 10\npoints.\" I'm on it. And very very much like my father. So she didn't want you to\nbe comfortable. She wanted you to continue to work. Great mentor to me. And she\nis a person that I would have reached out to, I think, on a regular basis. I did\nsomewhat. I mean, she helped me get into graduate school, wrote me a great\nletter when I thought I was going to go into coaching. Helped me out. And I\nregret--I mean, she was probably the most influential female in my life besides\nmy mother or grandmother or whatever. And so it was really awful that she died\nso young, basically. Would have loved to ask for her advice on some things.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Did you ever have any contact with her after?\n\nHAILEY: I did. I did. In fact, right when she was starting to get into some\ncompetitive biking and everything, I met her when I was down here--I was living\nelsewhere--for lunch like the year after graduate school or something.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I haven't been able to follow her career all the way back. Did she\never go back and do any coaching or anything like that?\n\nHAILEY: She did. She took a year off after Trinity, and she went to St Mary's Hall.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay! Somebody told me Alamo Heights. But Saint Mary's Hall.\n\nHAILEY: No. Saint Mary's Hall.\n\nHAILEY: Because Alamo Heights, Jill Herenberg (SP), who had played with us, she\nwent there. And then my senior year, Theresa Mahu (SP), who worked here for a\nwhile, she was one of her best players over there and she came to Trinity. And\nLibby did come. She came to a few games. But you know, she ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1800.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"didn't\nwant to be there all the time. She was afraid we would be noticing her and not\npaying attention to the current coach.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, you mean after she left?\n\nHAILEY: Right. Yeah, she would come in--my parents were--now, kids' parents,\nthey fly to every match, every game, every whatever. Then, that was a hardship\nfor my parents. They would come maybe once a year and watch me play. And she\nwould say, \"Hey, when your parents are here, let me know. I'll come and watch.\"\nAnd occasionally she might have said to me, \"Terri, have you called your parents\nlately? You need to call your parents. I'm gonna hear from your mother.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And is it your sense that you weren't the only person that this\nwas--kind of relationship? That you were more of a star player? What about\npeople who weren't playing so much? Do you have any sense of what their response\nwould be to her?\n\nHAILEY: I think they loved her. I think you're always gonna have people when\nyou're in supervision or coaching that don't play, that probably shouldn't be\nplaying, that are upset.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right. They think they should be playing.\n\nHAILEY: And they think other people get more attention. I think she really tried\nnot to do that. She was funny--when she would take me out of a basketball game,\nI would sit next to her and stare at her, after I'd been out for five seconds,\nand she would act like she never saw me. And then she'd be like, \"Okay, ready to\ngo back in.\" And fffft, I was there. And she actually said, \"Oh, I know you have\nto stand here, and you want to do this.\" And I'm like, \"Really?\" So she paid\nattention. But she expected--but I can remember also we were going on a bus trip\nand I was doing some sort of makeup test and so I got to the bus about two\nminutes before we were supposed to leave, and she was very upset. She had\nforgotten I think that I had this makeup test. And so she was not going to\nallow--I don't care who you were; she was not going to allow those rules to be\nbroken. She wasn't like, who was it, the Marquette coach that said--I guess he\nhad a lot of players from Harlem and he said, \"I would tell them the bus is\nleaving at seven and then whenever they got there we would leave.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We had one other story that--somebody playing at Incarnate Word, I\nthink before your time, and the student didn't show up--she showed up late. And\nshe went down there later and dressed to play, and Libby sent her home. Just\nsaid, \"You can't--no.\" She sent her home.\n\nHAILEY: You know, Jill Herenberg (SP), she was the catcher when I was the\npitcher, really good. And I think that was one person that Libby, later, after\nshe went into coaching, could talk to and everything. But she tried very hard\nnot to play favorites. People would say of course she was playing favorites, but\nI didn't see that. I thought she was great with every single person.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And could I ask you this? And Jes, I know you're going to\n(INAUDIBLE). But while Shirley's not here, would you comment--I feel like there\nwere two women that were responsible for the whole development of women, the\nmodels for women in the 1960s and 1970s. And Shirley had been there about 10\nyears before Libby arrived. Do you have any comments or any observations about\nher role or what she was perceived as, or what you perceived of her?\n\nHAILEY: Absolutely. So one thing that I would not do again that--that I was a PE\n(Physical Education) major. I was a triple major for a while. And that's\nprobably not something I would have done, because then I had to do all kinds of\nthings I wasn't good at, like gymnastics and dance. And I had to be one of the\nguys in dance because I was one of the taller people and there were two guys in\nour dance class. But she was terrific. And we would always give her a hard time\nand tell her, \"Oh, we're gonna go out and dance tonight, Shirley.\" But she\nadvised me after Libby left. She was great, really helpful. And back in those\ndays, you were guaranteed a teaching position. If you graduated with a teaching\ndegree, you had a position. And she would call me all the time--\"Hey, Terri, got\na job here for you, coaching tennis.\" And, \"Thank you, Shirley, but I  ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2100.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndon't want to go into teaching.\" Next week she'd call me--\"Hey, got an even\nbetter job that I think you'll really be good at.\" So yeah. And I've seen her a\ncouple of times when I've been back here. But no, I would agree, she was very\ninfluential. And Emilie Foster was here. She was obviously a little more--she\nwas good to me, gave me shoes. I know her. But she was more dealing with just tennis.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right. Well, she was more into a coaching position. Shirley did a\nlot of--they would call her the sponsor of a group, back before they really had\nall--she did a lot of that.\n\nHAILEY: Well, I always laugh these days. If I'm out dancing at a wedding or\nsomething, I'm like, \"Oh, thank you, Mrs. Rushing.\" We laugh about that, but\nit's true.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I took her class. The only one who ever failed.\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I'm the only one who ever failed.\n\nHAILEY: Well, you were here when Jess MacLeay was here.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, yes.\n\nHAILEY: Jess MacLeay would watch me shoot, and I was always very nervous,\nbecause I thought, \"Ohhh.\" But I knew he could help me. He was really good. And\nI took Kinesiology from him, and Libby gave us a speech and said, \"Look, you'll\neither get a C or an F, and it's only offered twice during your career.\" So\nwe're like, \"What?\" And she would actually come by during class occasionally,\nthe door would be closed, and she'd just kind of come by and go--\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: Kind of little--and we'd be like--and I can remember being in there for\na final, and his son (SP) was in there at the time. And I finished the final,\nand I had written in pen, but he wanted you to be there for the full three hours\nor whatever. And somebody actually got up and left. So I took a pencil and just\nkind of kept outlining what I wrote.\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: And I got a \"C\" and I was happy to get it, and move on. But the other\nthing that I'll say real quick too before I forget this is, so I think maybe my\nsophomore year, I had a back injury. It wasn't anything major. I mean, I never\nmissed any time. I think I pulled a muscle, or slightly tore a muscle. I was\ntrying to jump, which I wasn't very good at, and somebody about 6'5\" just kind\nof came over the top of me and pulled me down. We had student trainers, okay? We\nhad no locker room. We dressed in the women's restroom, locker room area, okay?\nUm, Levi (SP), who was great, was the trainer. He was great to us, but he had\nnothing to do with us, okay? So, when I hurt my back, I can remember going into\nthe men's locker room and--once again, not complaining, just saying how it was\nback in the day--I walked in the locker room and there was like a hot tub and a\nTV. And I can remember like, wow, thinking, \"Oh my gosh!\" And I'm sure Libby was\nprobably like, \"Oh, I probably shouldn't have brought you in here.\" Because she\nneeded Levi to help me with the issue or whatever. And then the other thing\nthat's very different now, obviously people don't play multiple sports, but we\nwould finish softball and we would start basketball on whenever the season\nopened. Around Thanksgiving, we would start basketball about two weeks before.\nThat's it. Never picked up a basketball. Never played, never--because we were\ngoing basically from one sport to the other. I mean, if I could go back and do\nthat differently--even in the summer, it was hard to get people together to\nplay. And plus you're working in the summer or whatever. So yeah, we never had\nany really pre-season. There was no recruiting like there is now. You were the\ncoach, you walked in--\"Okay, these are the people that showed up.\" So it was\nmore like high school. So you had to be a pretty good coach, because you didn't have--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: They weren't allowed to recruit.\n\nHAILEY: Right. Right.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But maybe you can answer this for me, too? You played softball in\nthe fall, then you played softball in the spring?\n\nHAILEY: No. At the time, it was a fall sport. But then my senior year--it was my\nsenior year, I think they might have moved it--we had some in the fall and some\nin the spring. But the Nationals--and we went to Nationals--were in the spring.\nBecause there was no soccer. That's the other thing Libby said to me once--\"Too\nbad there's not soccer; you'd be so great ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2400.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at soccer.\" And I thought,\n\"Oh boy, where is this going to go?\" And she said, \"Because you've got great\nfeet, but your hands are terrible.\" Okay, that's where that's going to go! And\nthat was my freshman year.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I think by that time, they did have club soccer.\n\nHAILEY: They did. They did have club soccer, right, but still no golf.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, that's the other question. We all went up to Denton, and the\nAIAW (Association for Intercollegiate Athletics for Women) records, we went\nthrough them. Gene is listed as women's golf coach. And I have things from the\nTrinitonian saying--well, calling for tryouts for women. I can find no evidence\nthat they ever played. And I was a close friend of Gene, and I could have asked\nhim that. But in any photos with the men's, I never saw a woman in there, so I\ndon't think they--\n\nHAILEY: No, no, no. Because he asked me to play men's golf, and I said \"I can't.\nI'm not smart enough to play all these sports and be gone.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That takes a lot of time, playing golf.\n\nHAILEY: Yeah. We were gone every weekend. And the women that played volleyball\nand softball, that was the same season. So you're playing softball and\nvolleyball in the same season. So you're just--I mean, they were having to play\non Friday and then the next week, they were playing volleyball.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, maybe with these records, they must have just kept listing\nhim as women's golf coach. We could see no record of them ever playing up at one\nof the tournaments. So I'm pretty confident that would be it. We'll ask a couple\nmore here. I've asked you about any records or any photographs and that, and you\nsaid maybe there were some--\n\nHAILEY: Justin Parker.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: He's a hard one to get. But you gave him what you had, is that it?\n\nHAILEY: Yeah and I think they found some for the Hall of Fame, right? Some\npictures? Any pictures I had would be basically of me standing.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: We'd like to have something like that.\n\nHAILEY: The problem is I think those are all in storage, which I cannot get to\nfor five or six months.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah. That's fine.\n\nHAILEY: I think they're snapshots that my parents took.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, we'd like to have some of--\n\nHAILEY: Okay. Sure.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And as far as records go, you don't know that you have any\ndetailed records of--I know they kept these record books, but we don't know--\n\nHAILEY: No, I know that they kept the softball, and I know there was a lapse\nthere, because I know when they were trying to find my stats, it was hard. But I\nwould think they found something, because they had some--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, that's why I'm trying to track that down. So I'll keep\nworking on that.\n\nHAILEY: I was the softball player of the year one year, and I got a letter, and\nthat may have listed certain things in there. It's kind of a shame.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Once you get that stuff, we'd be interested in seeing that.\nBecause we can scan these things and keep them here. Because we do want to\ngather whatever records that we have.\n\nHAILEY: Sure. And it's really sad that we had them, and who knows, they probably\ngot put in a box somewhere and destroyed, or--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's why they should be coming into the archives. They should.\nTennis has been better about doing that, but not the other sports.\n\nHAILEY: Well, I will get on them, because I know all the other coaches.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And then, a question that we ask is, is there any way in which you\nthink participating in sports has affected your later life or your professional\nlife, or in terms of values or whatever, that you feel that you got out of your\neducational experience that you wouldn't have gotten if you hadn't played?\n\nHAILEY: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So, college was the best time in my life,\nand I think it was enhanced by athletics, definitely. I don't know what I would\nhave done with myself if I hadn't been doing that. I used to tell my dad when he\ngot me these great jobs at a cottage cheese plant in the summer, \"You're just\ndoing this so I'll stay in school.\" And a part of it was being excited and\nknowing that I was gonna get to come back here and play. So besides--well, a lot\nof things. Teamwork. Being able to work with a team. Being able to listen to\ndirection. Learning how to engage with people. Learning how to work ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2700.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfor somebody, basically, because that's what a coach is. It's not about you;\nit's about the team. And I always say based on my job--and I do a lot of\nundercover type things--that my best employees are athletes, because they're\ncompetitive, they get the teamwork aspect, they're disciplined. The discipline I\ngot from that, the competitiveness from that, I think it helped me academically.\nAnd seeing that competitiveness among my teammates and other coaches. Yeah,\nabsolutely. I mean, would I have had that experience otherwise? No. Do I feel\nreally fortunate that I got to come here and thought I wasn't going to play\nanything and then couldn't have worked out any better for me. So even though I\ncan go back and say, \"Well, we didn't have this, we didn't have that,\" we didn't\nknow any better. And I wouldn't change that for anything. I loved that.\nSometimes I go and talk to the teams now. Here's another example. So you have to\nhave a 2.0 to be eligible to play in athletics, right? For women, when I was\nhere, it was higher.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right. I remember that.\n\nHAILEY: It was like a 2.5 for women.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah. I remember Libby saying that.\n\nHAILEY: But I've heard this--coaches--Dr. Calgaard came in, and then tennis was\nD III (Division III) and things really have happened. They were able to get into\na conference. They fly everywhere now. Recruiting is a big deal. They have great\ntrainers that help them with everything. They have somebody to help them lift\nweights and work out. We didn't have any of that. Sometimes the coaches will ask\nme to come in just so that I can say, \"Oh, you guys have it made.\" Support. Very\nsupportive on campus. All these teams basically are very good, very, very\nsuccessful. You know, volleyball, top five. Tennis--soccer, top five. So things\nhave really, really changed for the better. And sometimes I think, \"Ooh, I'd\nlove it to play now.\" But it was great back in the day. It wasn't the same. And\nsometimes you still think about--sometimes I still get upset when they don't\nshow WNBA (Women's National Basketball Association) as much on TV (television)\nor they don't show different women's sports. But yeah, I mean, I still come\nhere. I still go to the gym. And I still think about when I played and how\nawesome it was.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: It's sad that Libby expressed there at the end that everything was\nfalling apart and that she saw the students changing. She saw in Calgaard--she\nwas I think very much afraid that he was going to be all academics and no--those\nwere fears that really--because she's quoted as saying these things.\n\nHAILEY: Yeah. I think she was very frustrated by that. And it's too bad. Because\nI think about that today; I think, \"Oh she would love--she would love that.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: She didn't quite live long enough to--but she must have seen--I've\nbeen writing about this, and I thought she lived long enough--she didn't see the\nBell Center, but she knew that it was--if she kept in touch, and I'm assuming\nshe probably did, but she would have seen by then that we were continuing\nDivision III. We were in Division III by then. We didn't have a conference, but\nwe were in Division III. And that Calgaard was supporting women's--I talked to\nJulie Jenkins, and she came in 1985, and she was saying how supportive Calgaard\nwas and how the budgets had been balanced and and there was a lot more equity.\nAnd I always hoped that she lived to see some of that and allay her fears.\nBecause she was so foundational to what we have now. I think she felt that all\nthat work was just gonna come crumbling down, and the NCAA took over and it was\ngoing to be--I mean, it fortunately worked.\n\nHAILEY: She, I think, was offered the basketball coaching position at UTSA\n(University of Texas at San Antonio) when they first started.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right. Right. I heard that.\n\nHAILEY: She said, \"No, I want the kid that wants to come. I don't want a\nscholarship for that kid.\" But ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3000.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"another funny story--when we were\nplaying basketball--and like I said, everybody was the same--so we went to a\nregion which included Texas, Texas State. And there were eight teams in the top\n20 that year, and they were all going to be in the state of Texas. And we did\nhave a chance to go play, and then we didn't get picked. And we'd beaten some of\nthe teams that had beaten us. But that was kind of our chance. And that was I\nthink one of the first years that they'd won 20 games. And we only played 30,\nand a lot of those were, like I said, Stephen F. Austin, Texas. So we we go up\nto Texas to play, and she comes in the locker room and she has a newspaper\nclipping. She doesn't say a word, puts the newspaper clipping up, walks out the\ndoor. Newspaper clipping says according to the Texas coach and the Texas State\ncoach, the only thing to be determined here today is who's going to be in third,\nand that's probably going to be--and they named a couple other teams, not us.\nAnd obviously Texas State and Texas are far superior to these other teams, blah\nblah blah. So we go out and we beat Texas State.\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: The one thing she said before we beat them, though, she said, \"Okay,\ngirls, here's how it works. When we win, we'll go to this really nice seafood\nplace on the water in Austin. If we lose, we'll go to Dairy Queen.\"\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nHAILEY: So I can remember coming back--we took vans up there--I can remember\ncoming back and I can remember we had \"We Are The Champions\" cranked and she\ndidn't care. Because it was difficult. She had other colleagues that they made\nfun of her and made fun of us for being academic kids, and not as athletic.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Do you remember what year that was? I know I can track that down.\n\nHAILEY: That was when I was a freshman, so that would have been 1977, 1978. And\nI can remember her pregame speech before Texas, too. She said, \"Well, hold the\nball as long as you can, and then shoot the ball as hard as you can and try to\nget the rebound.\" And we were like, \"Are you kidding?\" And she's like, \"Well.\"\nBut I think Texas beat us by about 12, which I thought was pretty respectable.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You know, they did beat Texas here one time.\n\nHAILEY: Oh, really?\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: In basketball, down to the last second. I thought it was one where\nyou had played. That's probably just before you. They beat them here in Sams\nCenter. And then they played them again in the season, and they got walloped.\nBut they beat them. They beat them here. It was a last-second victory.\n\nHAILEY: Well, Patti McBee, who died very early on, like maybe 26, 27--very, very\ncompetitive. She and Jill Herenberg (SP) were both seniors and two of the best\nathletes. But she was 5'6\". She'd play against the 6'1\" guard, who was the\nNaismith winner. I think she was the best player in the country. And she would\ndrop 30 points on her. And just a tremendous passer.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Do you have any contact with Jill Herenberg (SP)? Do you know what\nher married name is?\n\nHAILEY: McNeil (SP). I believe it's McNeil (SP).\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Because we wanted to get in touch with her.\n\nHAILEY: I know that they looked at her for the Hall of Fame, and she didn't--I\ndon't know what her feelings are about athletics now, but I think they would\nknow how to get a hold of her. I think Bob, or those guys.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, this is part of what this project is all about--to try to\nhighlight some of these people.\n\nHAILEY: And you're talking about Julie, and Julie is my age. So she grew up in\nNew York. She had four years of athletics for women instead of two like I did.\nAnd somehow because of Title IX, she was able to play girls' tennis and boys'\ntennis. I don't know why. She was the number one player on the boys' team.\nBecause she said her boyfriend was like number four. And I said, \"How did that\ngo?\" And she said he was great. But she won a, I think, a state championship in\ntennis. So there was an advantage I guess with Title IX as well. But I will tell\nyou in high school, our English teacher was our coach, so you know how well that\nwent. And here's just kind of one of my pet peeves. I've always loved--I've\nalways preferred playing for women. I've played for men, too, and that's fine. I\nhad a good softball coach, math professor, Schmitzer (SP), when I was here. I\nmean, great. But ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3300.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I felt like you didn't see men gravitating into that\nsport until the pay moved up. The women's basketball coach here, Cameron, I love\nhim. But I just felt like that's kind of when--it's not like, \"Oh, we want to\ncoach women.\" It's now the pay is more equal. I may be all wrong about that, but--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I went to watch them play when Schmitzer (SP) was coach. Maybe it\nwas after you. I'll tell you a story about that after we're off the tape. But\nokay, is there questions that that--I mean, this has been really--\n\nNEAL: Yeah. I think you covered a lot. I think one thing that stood out for me\nwas the GPAs (Grade Point Average) and the non-excuses for being out. Like did\nyou find that that was different from the male team, the male athletes, and did\nthat create any type of animosity between the women athletes and the male athletes?\n\nHAILEY: Well, I think we kind of expected that. I think the animosity was--we\nwere practicing at 2:00, and so a lot of times, you had class. You couldn't--so\nyeah, that was tough. I don't know how supportive the male coaches were of the\nfemale sports at that point in time, which I think is way, way different now.\nThey go to each other's--they help each other out. But yeah, I think the women\nwere kind of an afterthought. And so like I said, when we traveled--and then the\nmen ate twice and we ate once. And Libby did her best. She did what she could\ndo. But she was kind of forced into--and I think that was part of the\nfrustration. But we were playing at Southwestern when we were undefeated and I\nhad a Religion final and Biology final and somebody had to drive me up to the\ngame. I couldn't leave when the team left. And I think I was terrible. And she\nsaid, \"Great, I just told this coach we had this good freshman, and you were\nterrible,\" And she told me that story right before we played them again, and I\nwas like thinking to myself, \"Okay, I better have a good game. I'm motivated\nnow.\" She was master motivator. Yeah, she really was.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I I guess I can't ask you who the Religion professor was that--if\nit was--\n\nHAILEY: No, no, no, no. And that's just the way it worked. We had a game\nscheduled at 7:00 and I had a final in the morning like at 10:00 and then I had\nthe other final at 2:00 in the afternoon, and I was in it for three hours.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: There were athletes who would ask to see if they could not take\nthat at another time. There was lots of problems and you weren't supposed to let\nanybody do it. But sometimes if you had another section, you'd say, \"Well, you\ncan take it with that section, so you can--\" But it would never occur to you to ask?\n\nHAILEY: It never occurred to me, and it probably never occurred to Libby. She\njust said, \"Okay, from now on, I'm not scheduling any games during finals.\" And\nthe other thing about starting late during the season--so we would go home for\nChristmas, and I can remember going home and it was--I lived in Missouri--it was\nicy and awful. I wasn't sure I could get back. And we had a game like two days\nbefore classes started. We didn't stay or we didn't come back and practice. We\nmight have been off for two weeks and practiced one day, and then we played. And\nI think I had to actually somehow fly and then drive into where we were playing\nbecause I couldn't get out of Missouri.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Did they have the Christmas holiday the way they have it now, to\nwhere the semester--did the semester end before Christmas?\n\nHAILEY: Yes.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Okay, see, they didn't used to do that.\n\nHAILEY: Oh, really? But we didn't have--and I don't know how late you guys--I\nmean, we didn't have that month in between. We would come back on the 8th or 9th\nor 10th of January. Which was good.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: But after the exams are over in December, they get almost a month.\n\nHAILEY: Well, I will tell you one funny story that I've kind of forgotten. So as\na senior, Lynn Luna was the coach. And she came to me before the season and she\nsaid, \"Terri, I'm sorry.\" I'm like, \"What?\" She said, \"I'm a volleyball coach\nand I'm coaching volleyball and basketball. I don't know anything about\nbasketball.\" So ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3600.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she would ask me, \"Hey, what'd this team do last\nyear?\" and \"What's your suggestions for this?\" And she was your typical\nlet-the-senior-do-anything. I mean, there were times I'd be like, \"Listen, that\nwas a bad pass on my part.\" And she'd be like, \"Oh, no, that's the freshman's\nfault.\" But she said to me once, \"Why are you passing the ball?\" And I go,\n\"Well, because I'm triple teamed.\" She said, \"Don't ever pass the ball again.\nShoot the ball.\" I said, \"When I'm triple teamed?\" And she said, \"Yes.\" So my\nsenior year, we qualified for Regionals, which was in Lubbock at Lubbock\nChristian. Have you heard about their facility? Okay, so they had this huge\nairplane hangar and they brought in a bowling alley, like from a bowling alley,\nthe wood, which, you know, it's nice and slick. And right under the basket, it\nfell off into the concrete. And it was freezing in there. So if you were doing a\nlayup, you had to be really careful. Or if it hit the edge of the wood floor,\nthen it was five minutes before you'd get to play again. Because I don't know\nwhy we didn't have an extra ball or anything, but we had to go chase this ball\ndown. So anyhow, Lubbock Christian was hosting Regionals and it was going to be,\nI believe, over spring break. So can you imagine this ever happening now? Okay,\nso we've qualified for playoffs. So she brought the team together and some\npeople were like, \"Yeah, I really want to go skiing over spring break\" or \"I\nwant to go to Mexico.\" And she said, \"Okay, we're going to vote.\" One girl was\nout, fortunately, and so the vote came back split. It was like seven people to\ngo, seven people not to go. Had the girl been there, she would have voted\nagainst it, okay? So, the coach said, \"You know what? Terri is the senior\"--I\nthink I was the only senior--\"She wants to go; we're going.\" Because a lot of\nthe players said, \"Well, we'll just go out there and get beat.\" And I was like,\n\"Who cares? I don't care if we go out there and get beat.\" And I think we\nactually went out there and took third. But I mean can you imagine that\nhappening now? I mean it was like the Y (YMCA -- Young Men's/Women's Christian\nAssociation)--\"Would you guys like to participate and go play?\" \"Are you kidding\nme? This is the end of my career. Of course, I want to go.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, that's kind of unusual for her to even ask, right? Libby.\n\nHAILEY: Well, it wasn't Libby. It was Lynn Luna.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, Lynn. I'm sorry. Lynn Luna. Right, okay, yeah. Okay, yeah,\nLynn. Oh, I could see that. You were there then also when that volleyball team\nquit. They didn't finish their season. That was 1979, I think. That was when\nSusan Howell (SP)--\n\nHAILEY: Right.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And that was another thing that really hurt Libby. They said that\nwas the first team they ever knew that quit in the middle of the season. And she\nsaw that as a change in the students. She wasn't coaching but--and that was one\nof the factors, I think, that really discouraged her, the fact that that could happen.\n\nHAILEY: I could see that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, that's wonderful. We really appreciate your time and your memories.\n\nHAILEY: I still--well, as I say these days--I told Cameron, I said, \"Well you\nknow in my mind I still think I could play.\"\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Yeah. I'm sure you could.\n\nHAILEY: But, no. But I appreciate you guys asking me, and I hope I didn't ramble\ntoo much. And I wasn't trying to be negative; I'm just trying to tell you--and\nlike I said, the whole GPA, I don't think we even thought anything about it.\nThat was just kind of expected.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Most of the women that we have interviewed so far have said pretty\nmuch the same--that us, looking back on this, we see, oh, inequity, inequity,\ninequity. And we were expecting to get that from you all. But it's been\nsomething--that's why it's so valuable.\n\nHAILEY: Yeah. I think we were just so happy that we got to play. That there were\nactual teams, that we got to play. Yeah. I think, 'Wow, would I like to play\nnow?\" As I said, yes. But could I? I don't know. And could I have played a\ncouple sports? I doubt it.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Not the way things are organized now.\n\nHAILEY: But do I wish I could go back and have more of the practice time and\neverything? And do I wish I got more than two years in high school? I mean, it\nwas probably not until the 1990s that my high school started fast pitch\nsoftball. I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3900.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30723/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mean, I would go--I was on a really good slow pitch team,\nand I would play Labor Day weekend, and then I would come down here and\nbasically practice one day and immediately go to a tournament. And Libby knew--I\nwas like, \"Hey, I'm playing in a national tournament.\" She's like, \"Fine. Come\non down when you can.\" Or what I would typically do is I think I would drive\ndown, maybe have a day of practice, fly back, take the bus trip with my slow\npitch team, and then fly back to class and maybe miss--that's when we'd start on\nThursday and when we actually went to school on Labor Day. Can you imagine? Can\nyou imagine that? But I think it's because everybody was from so far away. But I\nwould say Libby was like having another parent. And I knew--and there were a\ncouple of times that I would call her--I'm sure I'd done stupid things--and\nsaid, \"Hey.\" (laughs) She would say--she would help me or whatever. But I\ndefinitely think that I grew up a lot when I came here. And the profession I'm\nin now--oh, yeah. I mean, I can say--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: What it is your profession?\n\nHAILEY: So, so I'm FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation). And so I\nsupervise--right now, I supervise about 20 people. From Salt Lake (SP), I was a\npencil pusher, as I put it, and I call this my retirement move. They paid for me\nto come here. I'm eligible to retire in a couple years. And I kind of wanted to\nget back in the field, stupidly. Kind of old for that, but I wanted to get back\nin the field and actually run a team. And so that competition, and being with\nthe team--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: So, you're officed here in San Antonio.\n\nHAILEY: Right. But I'm out running a team now. And so I think a lot of my ideas\nabout how teamwork should be and discipline--and obviously you have to be\ndisciplined in this job--that I got from my experience at Trinity. And like I\nsaid, there are a lot of times I wish I could call Libby and say, \"Hey,\" you\nknow? She gave me a lot of advice about--\"Hey, you need to do this when you get\nout.\" Good advice. One of the coaches said to me one day, \"Oh, my player did\nthis. Can you believe it? What were they thinking?\" And I said, \"They're 19. Do\nyou remember what you were thinking when you were 19?\" Not what you're thinking\nwhen you're 50-something, right? Just remember that.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: That's what I think as a young professor I had to learn, too. That\nthey aren't all sitting there worried about their religion class,\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: They've got other things in their life than that. That's not the\nway it is.\n\nHAILEY: I will tell you I thought my religion classes were some of the most\ninteresting classes I took here. But that was also back when based on your SAT\n(Scholastic Aptitude Test) and how many hours you had in high school, you didn't\nhave to take math at all, period. Or no science--you know? Yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I forget which one you were in, but you could waive a--\n\nELSIK: They had goals. So many goals--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Goals you could waive.\n\nELSIK: You could drop a goal. Yes, that was wonderful.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: The students used to say they I waivered them.\n\nALL: (laugh)\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I would waiver them.\n\n(END INTERVIEW)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=4200.0,4500.0"}]},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30724","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Terri_Hailey__(1).xml Alt [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/transcript/30724/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":null,"format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=0.0,4410.0"}]},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview_with_Terri_Hailey__(1).xml [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Introduction","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=0.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Brackenridge: Okay this is January the 12th, 2018. I'm R. Douglas Brackenridge professor in emeritus at Trinity University and I will be interviewing Terri Hailey whose the class of '70, '81 \n\nHailey: '81\n\nBrackenridge: Class of '81. A trinity athlete accompanying in the interview is Jes Neal our university  archivist and Meredith Elsik who is a one of the library staff. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=0.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Early Athletic Years at Trinity Skyline","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=38.0,199.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: ...So, let me just pick up on what you were saying before we started recording, about the fact that there's so little information available about the time period--the 1960s, the 1970s. Your comments there, can you pick up what you were saying?\n\nHAILEY: Well, I think there wasn't much of an emphasis on athletics, except for tennis, which at the time, tennis was Division I. So athletics was just a small part. And during those years, I think they had been building the program, but I don't think they really even started basketball, softball, until a couple years before I got here, maybe 1972. So I know we had the record books. I know that they probably kept some stats. I'm not sure what happened to those. I know when we played softball, we had a book. We had all those. So who knows what happened to them. But I know that that some of the stats they kept--like in basketball they kept points, rebounds, games that you--single season records, single game records. But there were some stats that they keep now that they didn't keep then. Like shots, whatever.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=38.0,199.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why Trinity?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=199.0,410.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: Well, let's let's go back and start. We got a few questions here. And you feel free--sidebars or other things you want to say, you're not tied to this. But we like to ask, why did you come to Trinity? How did you end up at Trinity? And to what extent did athletics affect that choice?\n\nHAILEY: Okay. So, this is kind of a funny story. So, my brother went to Rice University, and then he went to Harvard Law. And he's seven years older than me. I looked at Emory; I looked at Rollins in Florida. I looked a lot of different places. And there were a lot of institutions I could have gone to with either some academic or some athletic or maybe full athletic, including the university in my hometown in Missouri, which I wanted to get out of my parents' house and grow up a little bit and go somewhere else. And so my brother brought up Trinity. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=199.0,410.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Athletic Background","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=410.0,510.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: So athletics was in the picture in your life?\n\nHAILEY: Oh yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You were going to do something.\n\nHAILEY: But yet in high school, I was only able to play two years of basketball. We did not have fast pitch softball. I played tennis and golf, ran a little track, because that's what we had. So my expectations when I came to Trinity was that I was not playing anything. So I came here purely at the time for academics. So it's kind of funny how that all worked out.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=410.0,510.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Women in Basketball","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=510.0,580.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: So, but did you feel at high school--was there any feeling that basketball and that wasn't something for a woman or for a girl to play?\n\nHAILEY: No, no. I didn't. I didn't feel that way. And my mother certainly--when I was 10 years old, she was \"You can play anything you want to play. You can be anything you want to be.\" And my brother was a big advocate. So, he just retired. He was an attorney in DC (District of Columbia). And when he moved to his past current law firm, he said, \"There are two offices I want you to see. And the one office I want you to see is the guy who's responsible for Title IX.\"","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=510.0,580.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sports Involvement at Trinity ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=580.0,1092.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: So when you came to Trinity, then if you weren't really expecting to play, how did you get then involved in in sports?\n\nHAILEY: Okay. So, I lived in Shook. No, what's the big dorm off Shook, I guess? The taller one.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: McClean? No?\n\nHAILEY: No.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, the high rise.\n\nHAILEY: Yeah, the high rise.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Thomas.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=580.0,1092.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Inequalities in Athletics","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1092.0,1363.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":" HAILEY:...And we would go over to Saint Mary's and play at their place. But yeah, we had four or five home games, like home games. Which was obviously a Title IX violation, right? Because if they had the boys' baseball field--\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Well, they were supposed to have equal facilities. You were supposed to have equal facilities. And again, what I picked up from all my reading is that sometimes the women would go over to the men's field to do some practicing, and they had to get off if the guys wanted it. But was that field there when you were there? Probably not.\n\nHAILEY: We never used the men's field, but I will tell you when we played basketball, we always had to practice at 2:00, which was kind of a problem. And when I'm telling you this, I'm trying not to complain. I'm going to tell you all the things that happened that are way different now, and then some good, some not so good. So we had to practice between 2:00 and 4:00. And when I was a senior, I would run track between 2:00 and 4:00 and then we'd practice softball between 4:00 and 6:00. The men, Pete Murphy was the coach. The men always had it at 4:00 in the gym. However, if it rained, then tennis came in, because they were Division I. And we all wore the same uniforms for volleyball, softball, basketball. It's all the same uniform.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1092.0,1363.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Libby Johnson ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1363.0,1843.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: But interested to know that. You've already given us some good things, but could we just focus on Libby?\n\nHAILEY: Sure.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: And I had just one question was, I didn't understand that she was ever coaching track.\n\nHAILEY: So, my freshman year, she coached four sports. Then my sophomore year, she was down to basketball and softball. Just those two.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Oh, okay. By that time what's-her-name had come.\n\nHAILEY: Right. But interesting about that--we had some injuries in track and I'd kind of been talked into running--is that Libby showed up on her own on the weekend and gave us some feedback. And gave us enough really good feedback that people were winning events they never would have won. And nothing about the track coach; she was I think more of a professor, more of a teacher.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1363.0,1843.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Libby Johnson's Frustrations","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1843.0,2063.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"HAILEY:...But she was very frustrated about like, for instance, there were no unexcused absences, so when we were gone on Friday, you had to be careful what professor you took, because some of them were understanding and some of them gave quizzes. And if you took that person--I had to drop a political science class my first semester because I didn't know about that. And I think she was very frustrated about, you know, just nobody cared. Nobody seemed to care. Nobody would back us.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: You mean nobody in terms of the faculty or administration?\n\nHAILEY: Faculty or even athletics. It was a man's world. And I think that's one thing that drove her out after my junior year. But, supportive of us. I mean, I couldn't have asked--she was a good person, helped me. Became my advisor after my first semester, when I mistakenly took five science classes. And then made sure that Shirley Rushing took me over my senior year when she was gone.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=1843.0,2063.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Johnson after Trinity University ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2063.0,2144.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Brackenridge: Go back and do any coaching or anything like that? \n\nHailey: She did, so she took a year off after Trinity and she went to at Saint Mary's Hall. \n\nBrackenridge: That's okay. Somebody told me Alamo Heights but.. \n\nBrackenridge/Hailey: Saint Mary's Hall.\n\nBrackenridge: Okay. \n\nHailey: And she did um because Alamo Heights Jill Harrenburg, who had played with us, she went there.\n","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2063.0,2144.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Johnson's Relationships with the Players","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2144.0,2306.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: And is it your sense that you weren't the only person that this was--kind of relationship? That you were more of a star player? What about people who weren't playing so much? Do you have any sense of what their response would be to her?\n\nHAILEY: I think they loved her. I think you're always gonna have people when you're in supervision or coaching that don't play, that probably shouldn't be playing, that are upset.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: Right. They think they should be playing.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2144.0,2306.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Shirley Rushing","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2306.0,2526.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: And could I ask you this? And Jes, I know you're going to (INAUDIBLE). But while Shirley's not here, would you comment--I feel like there were two women that were responsible for the whole development of women, the models for women in the 1960s and 1970s. And Shirley had been there about 10 years before Libby arrived. Do you have any comments or any observations about her role or what she was perceived as, or what you perceived of her?\n\nHAILEY: Absolutely. So one thing that I would not do again that--that I was a PE (Physical Education) major. I was a triple major for a while. And that's probably not something I would have done, because then I had to do all kinds of things I wasn't good at, like gymnastics and dance.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2306.0,2526.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Facility Inequalities","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2526.0,2666.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":" HAILEY:...But the other thing that I'll say real quick too before I forget this is, so I think maybe my sophomore year, I had a back injury. It wasn't anything major. I mean, I never missed any time. I think I pulled a muscle, or slightly tore a muscle. I was trying to jump, which I wasn't very good at, and somebody about 6'5\" just kind of came over the top of me and pulled me down. We had student trainers, okay? We had no locker room. We dressed in the women's restroom, locker room area, okay? Um, Levi (SP), who was great, was the trainer. He was great to us, but he had nothing to do with us, okay? So, when I hurt my back, I can remember going into the men's locker room and--once again, not complaining, just saying how it was back in the day--I walked in the locker room and there was like a hot tub and a TV. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2526.0,2666.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sports Schedule","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2666.0,2919.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: But maybe you can answer this for me, too? You played softball in the fall, then you played softball in the spring?\n\nHAILEY: No. At the time, it was a fall sport. But then my senior year--it was my senior year, I think they might have moved it--we had some in the fall and some in the spring. But the Nationals--and we went to Nationals--were in the spring. Because there was no soccer. That's the other thing Libby said to me once--\"Too bad there's not soccer; you'd be so great at soccer.\" And I thought, 00:45:00\"Oh boy, where is this going to go?\" And she said, \"Because you've got great feet, but your hands are terrible.\" Okay, that's where that's going to go! And that was my freshman year.\n\nBRACKENRIDGE: I think by that time, they did have club soccer.\n\nHAILEY: They did. They did have club soccer, right, but still no golf.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2666.0,2919.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Life Lessons from Sports","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2919.0,3084.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: And then, a question that we ask is, is there any way in which you think participating in sports has affected your later life or your professional life, or in terms of values or whatever, that you feel that you got out of your educational experience that you wouldn't have gotten if you hadn't played?\n\nHAILEY: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So, college was the best time in my life, and I think it was enhanced by athletics, definitely. I don't know what I would have done with myself if I hadn't been doing that. I used to tell my dad when he got me these great jobs at a cottage cheese plant in the summer, \"You're just doing this so I'll stay in school.\" And a part of it was being excited and knowing that I was gonna get to come back here and play. So besides--well, a lot of things. Teamwork. Being able to work with a team. Being able to listen to direction. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=2919.0,3084.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Division III","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3084.0,3177.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"HAILEY: But I've heard this--coaches--Dr. Calgaard came in, and then tennis was D III (Division III) and things really have happened. They were able to get into a conference. They fly everywhere now. Recruiting is a big deal. They have great trainers that help them with everything. They have somebody to help them lift weights and work out. We didn't have any of that. Sometimes the coaches will ask me to come in just so that I can say, \"Oh, you guys have it made.\" Support. Very supportive on campus. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3084.0,3177.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Libby Johnson and Division III Fears","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3177.0,3531.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRACKENRIDGE: It's sad that Libby expressed there at the end that everything was falling apart and that she saw the students changing. She saw in Calgaard--she was I think very much afraid that he was going to be all academics and no--those were fears that really--because she's quoted as saying these things.\n\nHAILEY: Yeah. I think she was very frustrated by that. And it's too bad. Because I think about that today; I think, \"Oh she would love--she would love that.\"","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3177.0,3531.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Title IX and Coaching","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3531.0,3643.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hailey: And you were talking about Julie and Julie is my age. So she grew up in New York. And so she had four years of athletics for woman instead of two. Like I did and some how because of title IX she was able to play girls tennis and boys tennis. I don't know why.\n\nBrackenridge: Is that right? Is that right?\n\nHailey: And she was the number one player on the boys team. Cause she said her her boyfriend was like number four. And I said, how did that go? She said he was great.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3531.0,3643.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GPA and No Excuses ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3643.0,3884.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Neal: I think one thing that stuck for me was the, the the GPAs and the non-uh excuses for being out like. Did you find that was different from the male team, male athletes and did that create any type of animosity between the women athletes and the male athletes? \n\nHailey: Well I think we kind of expected that. I mean I think the animosity was, um, you know we were practicing it too and so a lot of times you had class. I mean you couldn't , you know, so. Yeah that was tough. I, you know, I don't know how the supportive the male coaches were of the female sports at that point in time, which I think is way, way different now. ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3643.0,3884.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lynn Luna","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3884.0,4099.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hailey: I will tell you one funny story that I have kinda forgotten. so. As a senior, Lynn Luna was the coach, and she came to me before the season and she said \"Terry, I'm sorry\". i'm like. What? She said I'm a volleyball coach and I'm coaching Volleyball and basketball. I don't know anything about basketball. So she would ask me, hey  what this team do last year? What is your suggestions for this? And she was your typical let the senior do anything, and I mean there were times I would be like listen and that was a bad pass on my part and she would be like oh no that was the freshman's fault.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=3884.0,4099.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656/index/48435/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Closing","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1501/collection_resources/46559/file/119656#t=4099.0,4410.0"}]}]}]}