{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/xp6tx36p3d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Andy Hernandez"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/173/original/Logo_CL_ColorReversed.png?1773939905","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Andrew Hernandez. TU Treasures oral History Collection. UAOH003-013. Coates Library Special Collections and Archives. Trinity University (San Antonio, Tex.).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Trinity University Special Collections and Archives"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe materials in this collection may be protected by copyright law (Title 17, U.S. Code). The materials are available for personal, educational, and scholarly use. 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I am Seb Mora, a student at Trinity University, and today I'm interviewing Andrew Hernandez. Hernandez was a student at Trinity University from 1971 to 1975. I'm also joined by Lee Denny, who will monitor the recording equipment. Today's interview will mainly focus on Chicano experiences at Trinity, and more specifically, Mr. Hernandez's heavy involvement and activism at Trinity. This interview is being recorded for the Conmemorando a la Comunidad, Latinx Experiences at Trinity University, an archived with the University Archives, part of Trinity University's Special Collections and Archives in Coates Library. \n\nSo for my first question, I want to run through some of your earliest childhood memories. So what was it like growing up? Can you tell me about your family, friends, community, schooling, and the places you lived? \n\nHERNANDEZ: Yeah. Well, I grew up lower-middle class or upper- working class. Both of my parents worked. My mom was the executive secretary for the superintendent of the school district for San Antonio Independent School District. My dad worked, like all Chicanos of his generation, at Kelly Field [Kelly Air Force Base]. It was the great upward mobility vehicle because it was, you know, it was solid employment, good benefits, because it was federal government, and there was opportunities to advance within that, so––I grew up in the East Side of San Antonio. At that time, there wasn't too many Latinos or Mexican Americans on the East Side of San Antonio. It was mostly African American. Currently, that's changed. Almost half of the Eastside now is mostly Mexican immigrants. But at that time, we were one of the few Mexican American families. And there was a few white families, but they tended to be working class or low income. \n\nI went to, the elementary school called Robert E. Lee. It had a big Confederate flag in the cafeteria. And it's changed its name since then because the school, even at that time, was predominantly Black and Mexican American. But it had that ethos, you know. I remember kids getting spanked, spanked for speaking Spanish on the yard, on the recreational yard during recess. I remember we had a big sign in the cafeteria that said “English is spoken here, no Spanish”. I remember that. It was yellow and white. Big sign. \n\nI grew up pretty American, you know. My parents spoke to us English all the time. My dad could speak Spanish but he wasn’t very good at it. Our family had been here on my dad's side since it was Mexico, you know. And then on my mom's side, her dad had been here as part of the Spanish land grants. And on my mom's mom side, my grandmother on my mom's side, she had come over in 1904, you know. So we didn't have much of an immigrant story, right. We were Tejanos. Tejanos in every sense of the word. So, you know, English wasn't a problem for me. Spanish was more of a problem, you know. I spoke, I understood it completely because I grew up in a Spanish-speaking church, La Trinidad [United Methodist Church]. And everything was in Spanish, the services, the songs. And my grandmother could only speak Spanish on my mom's side. And so, you know, my parents left us a lot with my grandmother in retrospect, now that I think about it. Especially on New Year's weekends, New Year's Eve or, I think they were out partying. Now that as an adult, I look back at that. Every New Year's, that was a tradition. We'd spend that three days with my grandmother, my mom's mom. And she only spoke Spanish. So, you know, that's the only way we could communicate with her. So, you know, I grew up understanding Spanish. But I didn't have any problem with English. Although I would make up words. But that's a different story. \n\nGrowing up in San Antonio at that time, to be Mexican American was to be second class. I'll never forget, there was these white kids that lived right across the street from us. And there was these Black kids that lived on the block. And there was us. And we played together in the yard. And I remember the one time we were playing and a Black kid fell down or something. And the white kid said, “Haaa,” he said, “Look at you, [n-word]. You're on the ground.” And I'll never forget, the Black kid got up and said, “Yeah, but at least I'm not Mexican.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=0.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that's what our status was in San Antonio at that time. You know, you were kids and knew that. So we were always second class. You know, I didn't, I grew up at a time when there was no bank tellers or checkout people at grocery stores that were Mexican American. They were all white. So, you know, much less thinking of being a bank president. You didn't even have bank tellers. And I think that really came home to me during Fiesta. Because during Fiesta in San Antonio was the only time when all things Mexican were celebrated. Our clothes, our culture, our food. But this is before the stuff at Market Square. This is when you only had NIOSA, Night in Old San Antonio, run by the [San Antonio] Conservation Society. So it's––a lot changed. But I'll never forget, I remember even as a kid thinking, Man, the only time when it's good to be us, we're not even good enough to be us, to play us. You know, somebody else is dressing up and being us. We're not even good enough to be us when everything is celebrated about us. So that was kind of growing up in San Antonio. \n\nI went to Thomas Jefferson High School. My parents moved out of the Eastside specifically for me to go to Thomas Jefferson. They didn't want me to go to Fox Tech [High School] or Brack [Brackenridge High School]. Because those were vocational schools at the time. And they had college as a goal for me. And so Jefferson at that time was the school that you went to to go to college. Back in the late 60s, in ‘68, ‘69. And it had a big reputation at that time. Basketball, football. It was a big school. And so they actually moved into the Jefferson area for me to be able to go to Jeff. And so we moved into the Jefferson area. Not the historical area that's all, you know, half a million-dollar homes now. But across the track in the Jefferson area, but closer to St. Cloud and that area. And Culebra, that area. So I went to Jeff now.  \n\nYou know, I always felt I had a place at Jeff because my uncle, my dad's younger brother in 1953 had been the student body president there at Jefferson. But the reason for him to be the student body president, though, he was also their tennis star. He won state, the three years he was there, he won state championships every year. And actually, my dad grew up on the Eastside. So Johnny, my dad's younger brother, my uncle, the coaches at Jefferson wanted him to play. I mean, wanted him to go to Jeff so he could be on the tennis team, because he has beaten the state champ who was a Jefferson student in a tournament, in the city tournament, he had beaten him in junior high. So they were recruiting Johnny to go play at Jeff, right? Because they knew they had a winner. And my grandma said, “Look, you know, we don't have anybody to take him. We work and nobody can take him.” And the coaches told him, my grandma, and said, “We'll pick him up every day and drop him off.” And they did that for three years. So he was kind of a golden boy at Jeff. So I would walk the halls, see my uncle's picture, you know, because they had all, presidents of the student body at Jeff. \n\nJeff was a–– it was like a college at that time. It had sororities and fraternities before they were outlawed in high school. And so even there, though, even though I felt, you know, I had a right to be there because I saw my uncle looking down on me, I still felt that as a group, you know––we were looked down upon. And it's just little things. I mean, we had, I had some great teachers and some that weren't so great. But I remember for a book report, I decided to––because at that time I was becoming very much involved in the Chicano Movement and in high school and had, you know, very much influenced by the Civil Rights Movement, Martin Luther King, and by Bobby Kennedy's campaign for president. I would work on Bobby Kennedy's campaign for president even though I was like, you know, 13, 15, something like that, 15 or 16. I had worked on Pete Torres for mayor when I was 13. So I was already involved in politics and involved in Chicano Movement. So, you know, I played a little bit of that out at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=300.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jefferson. And me and this guy, Smiley Riojas––actually he comes to Trinity as part of the group that I was here with. We call him Smiley. I don't remember his first name. His last name is Riojas. But Smiley Riojas. At Jefferson, we did the first Chicano newspaper, called El Pito. And I'll never forget our initial inaugural issue, the cover story was, or the headline story was “Why aren't there more Mexican American cheerleaders?” Because we felt that that would have popular appeal. (Laughter) So, but that's, I'll never forget. I look back at that and I said, Yeah, that makes sense. It would come up with something like that. Why aren't there more Mexican American cheerleaders? \n\nBut anyway, so I was part of that and got involved with, you know, was involved with the lettuce boycott. Well, at the time, it was the lettuce boycott. Then it became the great boycott [Salad Bowl Strike]. In high school, I started dating with not my ex-wife, but became my ex-wife. And in high school, I would call her up on Friday and say, “Hey, Laura, what are you doing?” This is all landlines, guys. (Laughter) There's no cell phones or faxes or landlines. “What are you doing Friday?” she said, “Oh, nothing.” I said, “Do you want to go on the picket line at Safeway, the boycott the lettuce picket line? And after a while, we can go to Dairy Queen.” She said, “Okay.” So that's what we did. We'd go picket for about two hours. And then we'd go share a banana split up at Dairy Queen. That was our dating in high school. \n\nYeah. So I had originally planned to go to–– I'm sorry, you have other questions––but that's what it was like. I was going to segue into how I ended up at Trinity. \n\nMORA:  My next question was, how did you end up coming to Trinity? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Oh, perfect. Well, then it's a perfect segue. I wasn't coming. Trinity was never on my horizon. You know, my goal was UT [University of Texas at] Austin because my uncle had been a star, Johnny had been a star at UT Austin, Southwest Texas Conference Jam, Junior Davis, All that stuff, right? People were talking to him about going pro, but at the time there was not enough money in it. He figured there was more money in construction. So he decided not to go pro. But, you know, Johnny was like a little superstar. I mean, he was like a big name at UT Austin. So that was where I was going. And, of course, football, right? They had national championships and all that. So my plan, because my parents really couldn't, I had to pay my own way. My plan was to go two years to SAC [San Antonio College] and then transfer to UT Austin. And that was the plan. \n\nAnd so, and then what happened was, what happened was, my girlfriend's dad ran all the GED [General Education Diploma] programs and English as a second language programs in Bexar County at the time. So since I was the boyfriend of his daughter, he got me a job at one of the centers. After, you know, in the evenings, right? It was like from 5 to 7, or they'd have these classes, English as a second language. And I was just like the little gopher helper guy, right? But the guy who was running it at that time was Mario Compean, at that particular center. And Mario Compean had been a big time La Raza Unida guy. He was blacklisted from getting a job. So Mr. Avina, my ex-father-in-law, was a good guy, and gave him a job when nobody else would, as the director of this center, right? And I kind of know Mario. I wasn’t in Raza Unida. I was a Democrat, you know. And I had worked with the Joe Bernals and Albert Peñas. And these guys were not Raza Unida, right? La Raza Unida was a third party. And Mario was a third party. But, you know, I had much respect. And I had known him. And, you know, he kind of knew me from the other campaigns. This is a very small world, right? Everybody knows everybody. And so, you know, I was just there, and I remember one time he said, “Hey Andy, where are you going to college?” I said, “no, probably SAC. I'm going to go to SAC. And then I'm going to go to UT.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=600.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He said, “You know Jorge Anchondo?” I said, “No.” “At Trinity,” he said. [I said] “No.” He said, “Well, there's this group, Trinity Association for Chicano Students, Jorge Anchondo.” He said, “You know Miguel Berry?” I said, “Yeah.” “He's the media guy.” I said, “Yeah, yeah”. [Compean said] “They got this Ford Foundation grant. And the grant was they can get full scholarships for 25 Chicano students and they're the ones that are going to choose who those 25 are based on community activism and community involvement. You should apply.” He said, “I'll talk to Jorge.” I said, “Alright, I'll go.” So I went for my interview and I remember Jorge Anchondo was there. Although in the book they call him George Anchondo in the Trinity, [A Tale of] Three Cities, Brackenridge book. I don't know why they call him George, but I knew him as Jorge Anchondo. Miguel Berry was there And Raul Solis who ended up becoming a PhD and being, he was a PhD out of Lubbock. And I don't remember. There was two other people, but I don't remember them. I think it was Raul Morales who played, he was on a soccer scholarship, who was part of TACS [Trinity Association of Chicano Students]. I can't think–– I remember Jorge. I remember Jorge for sure and Miguel and Raul. And so, you know, they interviewed me and all that stuff and I was one of the ones that got selected. I was [one of] 25, and the program was, the Ford Foundation grant was something else. It was a full ride, paid for everything, for four years. It provided a book stipend every semester. We even had like a little charge account at the––and sometimes I'd buy all my books for my classes and I had money left over so then I'd buy albums. (Laughter) I had money left over. I had a Linda Rondstat album. And some of us were hired as tutors for some of the students. They weren't as academically strong as, you know, some of us that came in. So we had another stipend. They had a, actually like a house for us on Shook [Avenue]. It was almost like a fraternity house, sorority house. It was just for the Trinity Association for Chicano Students where we could hang out. And then there was other big players too here who became pretty big. Carlos Guerra, for example, was getting his master's here. Carlos Guerra became, you know, a big writer for San Antonio Light – Express News and then moved over to the Light when the Express News closed down [San Antonio Light closed in the early 1990s]. And for years and years until, you know, he passed about 12, 13 years ago. But he was a big player, right? Carlos Guerra was a big player. \n\nSo there was this whole program set up to help these 25 students who didn't have––I mean, I was a B student. I wasn't, you know, there was nothing like a––oh, like I had all these scholarships. I didn't have any scholarship, you know, offers from these schools. So I was just a B student. But I got here and, you know, I was one of the ones that got accepted. And the Trinity Association for Chicano Students, the leadership, was pretty well developed. They were really smart. They were very strategic. They fought for everything, from more Chicano professors. To more research. To more studies around Chicano life. To, of course, bringing more students in. And to building activists. You know what I mean? They saw Trinity as a place where activists could get their four-year education at a good school with good credentials. But it wasn't just to get a good job, it was to make change in the community. \n\nMORA: There is a part in this interview where we will be talking specifically about the Trinity Association for Chicano students. \n\nHERNANDEZ: Okay.\n\nMORA: So before we get into that, I'd like to know, how were the Ford Foundation recipients treated or supported once on campus? \n\nHERNANDEZ: It was––we were very insular because of the program. Jorge Anchondo was the director. We had a secretary, you know, a full-time secretary,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=900.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and office so we could go there if we needed support in any way. We didn't have to pay for anything. You know, it's all subsidized. We would––so it was almost, I don't know, if conclusive is the right word, but we were very insulated in that, and that's where most of us staked our four years in that organization and that work, you know, and with those people. So, you know, I didn’t have friends outside of that group here at Trinity. That was my social life. \n\nMORA: Well, can you name some of the recipients you remember?\n\nHERNANDEZ: Yeah, Elizabeth Ruiz, she just retired. Bitzy. We called her Bitzy at the time. I still call her Bitzy. “Hey Bitzy”. And she’s the same, man, Bitzy is the same as she was when she was here. Raul Morales, later becomes a big time activist, but he was here on a soccer scholarship, he was a really good soccer player. All the girls were in love with him. They were––Sylvia Hernandez, who was also here. She went and did great things too, of that group. Who else was here? Rolando Cortés—Rolando and I were closed, I don’t know what happened to him since then—The Pompa [sp?] sisters, they went and did great things at MALDEF [Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund] and education. That’s all that come to mind right now. I am sure if I saw a list shut off my memory. \n\nMORA:  Well, thank you for what you could remember. We're actually interviewing Elizabeth next week. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  I love Bitsy. I do. She was always the sweetest thing. She always had this personality, you know, like––I don't know. And I see her now at different conferences or events. She's the same. She hasn't changed at all. \n\nMORA:  Thank you for sharing. Describe to me what it was like to be at Trinity in those initial weeks and months.\n\nHERNANDEZ:  I really liked the intellectual challenge. You know, I liked all my professors and I thought the class sizes were small compared to SAC and other places where my other friends had gone. I liked that. I got good professors. I never had a problem with any of the professors here. They were all good and very supportive. You know, I majored in––I figured out when I first got here, I figured out, man, you can, if you play your cards right, you can actually get three majors because things will count for two. You could get sociology or religion; and that would count for religion and would count for sociology. So I planned out because I'm going to see if I could get three majors. And I did. I got a major in Religion, Sociology, and Political Science. \n\nSo my first––the sociology was like, I just did it for the heck of it. It wasn't that memorable, but the Political Science I loved because a lot of the political science courses were things that I was interested in, like I remember Dr. Tucker Gibson taught a course on campaigns and elections and I was really interested in that because I'd been involved in campaigns, right? And in Religion, you know, although this was a Presbyterian school, it was a Protestant school, so I liked my religious classes too, my New Testament classes. I had grown up in the church, uh––I actually wanted to be a Methodist pastor, which I became one. I became an ordained elder in the Methodist Church and pastor for a number of years. So, I liked all my professors. I really did. I loved my classes. I was a nerd. I was a nerd. What can you say? I liked the intellectual stimulation. I liked, you know––I loved my New Testament studies, you know and––Just to think about what it would have been to be in that world at that time and what it means for us today and uh, yeah. So my experience was good. And like I said, I didn't have––my whole experience socially, because I was a townie, right? I didn't live on campus. I would come in every day and go home after my classes. I lived at home the whole time I was going to Trinity. So I had my mom wash my clothes. And I’d have––She'd make all my food. I had the best. Looking back compared to kids now, I say, man, I had it made. (Laughter) I really did have it made. I wouldn't have switched that for dorm life at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=1200.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, I really didn't have––My only social connections here was the Trinity Association of Chicano Students. And we did stuff here and then we did stuff in the community and off campus. It wasn't even a Trinity thing in my mind. It was another group that was trying to do good things for the Chicano community. \n\nI don't want to go too deep in it because you're probably going to ask those questions later on. I don't want to jump ahead of you again. \n\nMORA:  Thank you. Once you became settled into the routine of semester schedules, what did a typical day as a student at Trinity look like for you? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Just come and do my classes and then go back home. Sometimes I would go to the library and check out some books that I needed for a research thing or class, but that's basically it. If we had a TACS meeting or something like that, I would stay for that. I'd sit out and just hang out with the tax people and the student union building and the chairs and just shoot the shit. Talk about what we're going to do next and what's happening here and did you hear this and all the chisme. Get all the chisme on everybody. (Laughter)\n\nMORA:  Do you remember having any Latinx professors or instructors? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  There was a professor in the religion department, but I don't remember his name [Francisco O. Garcia-Treto]. He was Cuban. I just remember he was Cuban. He had a mustache. He was kind of chubby. That's all I remember. But I liked him a lot. I just don't remember his name. I would just be making up. I was going to say Garcia, but I don't remember his name.\n\nMORA: Thank you. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  That's the only one I had. I didn't have any others.\n\nMORA:  Oh, okay. Now going back to you talked about your professors and you had a really strong relationship with your professors. Can you talk about these relationships with your professors? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Well, I think some of the professors were really interested in what was happening in the Mexican American community here in San Antonio. And even though they were Anglo, they still cared about it, right? So in my work in politics, in the campaigns I run, there have been professors almost at every university, you know, one or two that got involved with us. They got involved with our candidates. You know, Gary Mounce was here at Trinity? I think he passed. Is he still alive? \n\nSCHNUR:  We're not sure. I think he worked at St. Mary's, but his wife, Virginia, worked here. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Okay. Yeah, Gary Mounce. Okay, it might be St. Mary's. I knew there was a Trinity connection somewhere. But Gary Mounce and then at St. Mary's it would have been Dr. Charles Cottrell, Charlie Cottrell, George Benz, who's now passed. He's a big labor guy. Richard Gambitta, who's now at UTSA Well, he retired. He was at UTSA for a while. But before that, I don't remember. Richard was at it. Anyway, he was part of the work we did in the community. \n\nDr. Tucker Gibson was helpful when it came to stuff like voting rights and stuff like that. And so the legal part of it. He ended up in the lawsuits that we would end up filing when I went to Southwest Voter. He ended up on the other side as an expert witness. But, you know, that's fine. We still beat them. And he made his money, I guess. (Laughter) So, you know, I didn't hold it against him. You know, it's a way of making money. And they were going to lose anyway. So the law was pretty–– at that time, the law was pretty clear. It's not that case anymore, but at that time it was. So––but I appreciated the fact that, you know, he always let me do projects that I felt could contribute something. Like if I did a research project–– like, you know, I did a research project on why Mexican Americans don't vote, as part of my senior thesis or whatever it was at the time. And so he was very encouraging with that. And there was another one that taught European politics or something like that, international politics [Ton P. DeVos].  He was a Dutch guy. He had been under a Nazi occupation as a young kid. And so he came from that background. You know, and he was very good too. I just don't remember his name. I can see his face. I don't remember his name. \n\nMORA:  Thank you. Now we can talk about student organizations. Upon researching your time at Trinity, I found you were very involved on campus, from your involvement in student government to your participation in Trinity Association for Chicano Students, as well as your cooperation on a minority council between TACS and the Black Experience at Trinity [BET]. First, I want to discuss your experience","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=1500.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"working in the Student Senate. What was it like being a town senator and a representative at large, walking through setbacks, successes, and any other experiences you can recall? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Well, you know, we're the ones that made the town thing happen. \n\nMORA: Oh.\n\nHERNANDEZ: Before, it was just an election that everybody voted in. And, of course, the dorm students dominated. So as part of the minority council––and, of course, guess who was the townies? There were a lot that were townies, but it was mostly Mexicans and Blacks that were townies. You know what I mean? Almost, there was very few Mexican Americans or Blacks that were dorm students. Let me just put it that way. You know, they were, you had a lot of international students, but I didn't count them, you know. No, because the nationals are, you know, they come from––This was a class thing question. It wasn't an ethnicity question. You know, institutions of higher education such as Trinity, you know, they can draw people that can pay full freight, right? You know, and Incarnate Word does the same thing. They draw people that can pay full freight. But that's not the issue. The issue was for the Mexican American population, who was mostly working class or lower middle class, they could never afford to come to a place like this and draw full freight, even with loans. So it was always, there was always a class dimension that I think was really important. And international students, didn't fit that class dimension. You didn't have poor international students coming here, or working class. You had the ruling classes come here, for lack of a better word, you know. And they kind of looked down on us anyway. You got the feeling like, Oh, okay, it's Mexicans and, you know, they're our servants. Not that, but, you know, they didn't think we were their equal. \n\nMORA: Right.\n\nHERNANDEZ: So it was a class thing. And so, that’s a perspective I always kept, right? It wasn't about what we now call diversity in having Latinos. It was whether or not Latinos who had been cut out were being able to be cut in. And they were cut out because of their marginalization of class. And they were seen nothing more than cheap labor. \n\nSo we knew that we would never be able to––Well, there's a couple of things that happened. Let me just––the first thing we took on, and I made it a fight for, was the student activities money. At that time, everybody had to pay a student activity fee. I don't know if you still do. It's like a tax. And that money is supposed to go to a fund that does activities for students. By that time, all the money went to sororities and fraternities. The student activity money. And I thought, well, that ain't fair. That ain't right. Because most of us aren't in fraternities and sororities, blacks and Latino. And we do have legitimate organizations. We have the Trinity Association for Chicano Students. We have a Black group and other groups. So I did a, I started a campaign called Taxation Without Representation. We're being taxed, but we're not being represented in the budget allocations when it comes to it. So we were able to get that changed. And money that, student activity money–– the Trinity Association of Chicanos now had a slice of that student activity money in a budget amount. So we were able to bring speakers on and pay them $10,000. The only people there were the Chicano students.  (Laughter) So we were able to do things like that. Mario Compean was brought on and I think we gave him $10,000, and you know, this helped keep him afloat so he didn't starve. Then we, I remember we bought the Teatro Campesino on campus. And I remember they were going through, they went through all the little hall classrooms and with their little things and little masks. And everybody was like, “ooh,” were all scared. (Laughter) I'll never forget that. I got scared. I said, “What the fuck are they doing?” Because they were doing it here in the, outside. And then all of a sudden, they decided they're going to go inside the halls where the classrooms are. And there was class to be in. I said, “Oh, we’re going to be in so much trouble.” I just remember that. Yeah. \n\nMORA: That's hilarious. \n\nHERNANDEZ: I got scared. I got scared. Like, Oh shit. What the hell? I hope they don't beat anybody up. (Laughter) So we were able to do that. \n\nSo the next thing, the next agenda item, and this is where we were really close to Blacks was,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=1800.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"making sure the townies had representation. So we were able to get them to allocate, I don't know, two or three seats where only town suits could vote on those seats. And that's how I got elected. Because otherwise I wouldn't have. \n\nMORA:  Do you want to talk about anything else in the Senate? Is there anything that you remember? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  I just, I was one of the guys that was pushing for Simon-pure football. Because I thought some of that money could come our way. I just remember when the senate, Student Senate took the vote, recommended Simon-pure football, all the jocks were there at this, I don't even think they voted student council election, but they were all there. I just remember when we came out of the meeting and one guy said, “Hey, do you know who Andy Hernandez is?” I said, “No.” And I just kept walking. I said, “Fuck that, I'm not going to get my ass kicked by some football guy.” (Laughter) No, really. I remember that. No. And they were laughing at me later and said, “Dude.” I said, “I don't care.”\n\nMORA: Okay––\n\nHERNANDEZ: They should have paid more attention to the politics. It's their fault for not knowing what was going on. \n\nMORA: So I became very familiar with the lettuce boycott and the activism you were doing on campus––\n\nHERNANDEZ:   Oh, yeah, yeah. \n\nMORA: So can you please talk about––\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Yeah, we felt like that was an easy win. That was what we call low-hanging fruit from an organizing point of view. Because, you know, Trinity––at that time, and I don't know if it still does, but at that time it really emphasized its faith-based stuff, right? It still emphasized that a lot. And, you know, the whole justice question––and it was an easy ask. You know, it's not like we asked them to, you know, give a million dollars to the Farm Workers Union. We just said, not even give up lettuce, just bring in union lettuce. \n\nMORA: Yeah. \n\nHERNANDEZ: You know what I mean? So we thought that if they––in organizing, you do the easy ask, that everybody would say, Yeah, that makes sense. And then if they don't do it, you have a fight. And you've got the moral high ground, right? It's called polarizing an issue. But Trinity, you know, said, okay, so we didn’t have to fight. Damn it. (laughter) No, we were actually happy because it was a win. It was a win. And I think for a couple years they did it, then they stopped doing it. But for a couple years they were pretty faithful about keeping that commitment. Yeah, and we would, you know, things like that, we would ask the question, in what way can Trinity participate or disengage from this? You know what I mean? What way we can participate to make good things happen or disengage from the bad things that we're doing? So we're always looking at the systems thing, not just individual stuff, right? \n\nAnd, you know, TACS must have had a lot of clout then, because I remember we met with Duncan Wimpress, the president of the university, TACS students, I remember. We were all there in a meeting and everybody had to––I mean, people were saying tough things and he kind of just sat there and took it and [said] “we'll look into that.” I'm sure nothing happened. But the fact that you could have a meeting with the president of the university, at Trinity University, was a win in itself. You know what I mean? \n\nMORA:  Yeah, I do. Now can we talk about your experience with TACS? Literally anything you'd like to share? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  No, you know, I think the fact that we had 25 activists or people that had been involved in the community and already had shown that they're not afraid to speak out or make a fight was a unique historical situation at Trinity. These were people that were picked because they were fighters. You know what I mean? And they were completely supportive so they didn't have to worry about other stuff like having a job or, you know, things like that. They could just focus on their schoolwork and on their activism while they were here. And I don't think, you know, looking back, that was, how many times has that happened? Anywhere? So, literally you built in a class of activists for four years into Trinity. And who came with that orientation–– It's not that they learned to be that, you know. Those of us who were picked, it's because we were already doing it. You know, that was the criteria that TACS used to pick who would come. Not who had the best scholarship or who had the most need. Who was already in the fight and would continue making the fight? \n\nMORA: I like that model. \n\nHERNANDEZ: I wish we could replicate it, but that probably is just, it was––see it wasn't Trinity, it was the Ford Foundation. So Trinity had a choice. Do we give up scholarship money for 25 students, get all the credit for it,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=2100.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or do we take it? So of course they're going to take that deal. You know, that's a big win for them, right? That's a lot of money. Full rides and then to get the credit for it. So it was the Ford Foundation. It wouldn't have happened without the Ford Foundation. \n\nMORA:  Yeah. Finally, let's talk about the Minority Council that you were on. Can you walk me through, like––? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Mostly we worked on issues like––the Minority Council worked on issues like the allocation of student activity money. We worked on issues like the voting system, right, at large versus townie, single member districts. We used that model, that we were doing in the voting rights cases. Mostly, like, I don't remember, there was a little bit of cultural stuff, you know, but it wasn't a big emphasis of our work here or of the African Americans. It was more like money, you know, influence, students being here, more of that than “we want you to appreciate our culture”. It wasn't, there wasn't much of a cultural thing. You know, I think once in a while we'd have, like, a Fiesta thing, but I don't remember it being a big part of what we did. \n\nMORA:  I see. Thank you for sharing. Was there any other student group involved maybe you were a part of that we did not cover? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  There was a group of white progressives, and actually the other ones that took over the Students Senate, when I got elected. And that's why it was Simon-pure and all that stuff, you know, the recommendation. And they were pretty good. They were pretty good. They were progressive. And they initiated, which I wasn't big on, but, you know, I wanted to be supportive of their goals, too, because they were supportive of ours, where they would let students grade or assess professors. \n\nMORA: Okay. \n\nHERNANDEZ: Because they felt that was a way of protecting professors who were progressives. So that the university couldn't get rid of professors if they weren't conservative enough if the students liked them. So they saw it as a way of protecting professors. I wasn't sure about that, but, you know, I went along with it. \n\nMORA: I see. \n\nHERNANDEZ: I was part of the coalition, you know, reciprocal support in coalition matters. But we went along with it because, you know. It was a big thing for them. I don't know why, but it was a big thing for them. \n\nMORA:  Okay. I learned through your interview with the Civil Rights and Black and Brown project that you were very involved in local political campaigns while you were a student. And you had started looking into Mexican American voter turnout. Can you tell me about the classes you were taking at Trinity, the projects and research you were conducting as a student, and how this got the attention of Willie Velasquez? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Yeah. Well, I had been––when I was here at Trinity, I worked on the Joe Bernal campaign. And for State Senate, we lost that by 99 votes to Nelson Wolff, who is now the County Judge. And then we ran again and ran against [Frank] Lombardino. We lost that in a very close election. So it was very frustrating. And then Albert Peña loses to [Albert] Bustamante, another progressive. Chicano loses. And so there was a series of losses. Pete Torres lost when he ran for mayor. Albert Peña loses two years later against Albert Bustamante, conservative. And then Joe Bernal loses, an incumbent, to two white guys in districts that were predominantly, population-wise, Mexican American. So I said, we've got to stop. I thought to myself, we've got to stop losing. So, you know, I was very much a research guy, right? I liked it. I was nerdy. Campaigns and Elections was one of the classes. There was another class that I did with Dr. Gibson that also, I forget what it was called, maybe Political Communications or something. Something to do with the media and political communications. But in those two classes, in one class, I researched what the Blacks had done on voter registration in the South under the Voter Education Project under John Lewis. And looked at their NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] chapter work and all that stuff. And said, Okay, well, how did they do that work? And what can we learn from it? And so I did a paper on how would you set up an effective voter registration campaign within the Mexican American community. And then I did another paper on why Mexican Americans don't vote and what kind of media do they listen to. And so, you know, there was very limited research at the time, but there was something, right? So you could put a paper together for undergraduate work for it. And Dr. Gibson was very supportive of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=2400.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that's the places––\n\nNow, how I got connected to Willie was not Trinity, it was at St. Mary's. Dr. Charles Cottrell had been part of the Joe Bernal campaign. And of course, he had been part of the founding of MAYO [Mexican American Youth Organization] and had been Willie Velasquez's professor and all those, that historical connection. But I knew Charlie. I had known Willie. Just as a guy that ran the Farah Strike Workers in the campaigns. And I had known him as, you know, one of the founders of MAYO. But I wasn't in that world. I wasn't in the La Raza Unida-MAYO world. I was in the progressive democratic activist world, party world. You know, with the Joe Bernals and all those, the Pete Torreses. So after we lost, I said, “God dangit, we're going to keep losing.” So I said, I know what we'll do. So I came up with this idea. I said, We'll develop a Chicano voter think tank. And I said, Okay, but who's going to do the work? I said, Okay, this what we'll do. I said, This what we'll do. I'll get the professors who have been allies of ours and get them to get their students to do the research, and they'll contribute that research to this think tank, and we can see, answer questions like, how do we increase Mexican American voting registration? How do we use media? How do we message out media? How do we communicate in a way that motivates people to vote? Blah-blah-blah, blah-blah-blah. So I had started, I went, met with George Benz and I met with Richard Gambita and other professors. And, you know, they were like, yeah, we can do this. I said, Yeah, but, you know, we need to develop a research agenda. And then you need to assign that to your students, particularly your graduate students, because they know more. And they'll be better at it. “Yeah, yeah, okay.”\n\nSo I was doing my pitch with Charlie, right? I was in the office with Charlie doing my pitch, talking about it. And it just so happened that his secretary comes in and says, “Charlie, that's Willie Velasquez on the line for you.” And Willie said, and Charlie said, “Let me take this call, Andy.” I said, “Okay.” So he hung up, and he said, “Do you know Willie Velasquez?” I said, “Yeah,” you know, I met him in the campaigns and, you know, he came to speak to one of our church groups, and I know of his work with MAYO. And he said, “Well, he just got his tax exemption to do a voter registration campaign and to form an organization to do voter registration in the Mexican American community.” “Oh,” I said, “Good, good, good,” I said, “we need something like that.” He said, “Well, he's looking for somebody to help write the proposals and do some of the research. Oh, would you be interested?” I said, “Yeah, yeah.” Because that's what I wanted to see happen anyway, right? That's why I was there. I was talking to Charlie. I was trying to make that happen. I said, Oh, shoot, this is perfect. So he said, Okay. So Willie got on the phone, you know, he put Willie on the phone with me. I talked to him. I said, okay. \n\nAnd I got the address and went down. \n\nSo when I got there to, what was the old Mexican American Community Council, I got there. I said, “I'm here to see William C. Velasquez.” Willie Velasquez. And I remember the secretary said, “Who?” I said, “Willie Velasquez.” And then some woman behind him said, “Oh, yeah, he's the guy in the back.” I thought, Okay, that's not a good start. And so I went back there, and it was just a room with a folding table, a folding chair on that side, Willie was sitting in a folding chair, and just one filing cabinet. That's it, in the big old room. And I thought, Okay. So he sat down and he said, he asked me, “Andy?” -- He used to smoke a lot.—“Andy? Why did we lose the Joe Bernal campaign?” And I had played the numbers over in my head a thousand times. I said, well, you know, our turnout ratio here, and I went on for about half an hour about turnout ratios and unexpected, you know, high turnout in the Anglos and the one that never voted before and blah-blah-blah. You know, we haven’t met our all goals, blah-blah-blah. And I just remember him going, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then I just ran out of gas, you know. I had given my little PhD dissertation and just ran out of gas. And I remember Willie said, “Andy, I'll tell you why we lost the Joe Bernal campaign.” I thought, why just? I finished explaining it, but okay, tell me. I said, because when you're a kid, that's the way you think, right? You think you know everything–– And he said, “I'll tell you why we lost. We ran out of Mexicans. And we're going to keep running out of Mexicans because they're not registered to vote.” And I said, well, that distinctly puts out what I said. I mean, he succinctly refrained exactly what I was saying. We just ran out of Mexicans because they're not registered to vote. And I'll just always remember this. “This is what we're going to do, Andy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=2700.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We're going to build the biggest voter registration campaign that Mexicans have ever seen in the Southwest. We're going to be around at least 10 years. And every clinical politician will respect and fear our vote when we're finished.” And I was sitting there thinking to myself, we just got our asses handed to us with the Joe Bernal campaign. Joe Bernal campaign. I'm sitting here talking to a guy in a folding chair. (Laughter) And that's it, and a folding table. But I thought, Hey, what do we have to lose, you know? We've got nothing to lose. And so in 2025, Southwest Voter will celebrate its 50th anniversary. I also still at Trinity when I started working for Willie in 1974. \n\nMORA:  Yep.  Anything else you'd like to talk about? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  No. The paper that I did for Dr. Gibson is something that Willie said, “Let's start thinking about how we're going to do this.” And that became kind of not as, I wouldn't say the model, but a starting point for the discussion. And some of the early research that I had done on media usage became kind of like gospel. \n\nThe only other thing is I remember one-time when he, you know, he challenged my research ethics and I failed. But anyway, I remember one time, you know, my job was to come up with the eligible voter population that could be registered in every state in the Southwest. So, yeah, I did that. And I showed him the numbers. And he said, “No, these are wrong.” I said, “No, they're right, Willie.” You know, “I got it from the Census Bureau. They're right.” He said, “No, they're wrong. They're too low.” I said, “No, this is the eligible population.” He said, “They're wrong, Andy. They're too low.” And I said, Oh, I know what's going on. I said, “I eliminated everybody who's not a citizen because even though they're over 18, they're not eligible to vote because they're not citizens. So I took out the non-citizen population from our potential voting age, the eligible voting age population.” He said, “Put them back in.” I said, “Well, they're not eligible.” He said, “Put them back in.” I said, “I can't do that, Willie.” He said, “The Gringos have exploited us, taken our land, exploited our labor for 500 years. This is back rent.” I said, Well, he's right. (Laughter) I didn’t live up to my research on ethics, but I'll never forget that. He said, “500 years.” I said, “500 years. Yeah, you're right. This is back rent!”\n\nMORA:  Thank you for that. With all that you had done on campus, what was your general sense of belonging on campus, at Trinity? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  My sense of belonging was pegged to the Trinity Association of Chicano Students, you know. That was it. I mean, I had no other connections other than that. I had political alliances, but they weren't like friendships or anything like that. There were alliances with Blacks or with progressive Anglos or whites. But it wasn't like we hung out and stuff. It was pretty insular, in my experience. And I was fine with that. I liked that. \n\nMORA:  Considering that the members of TACS were the only people that you really saw yourself in, do you feel like you fit in at Trinity? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  No. I fit in with TACS, but it was still alien ––it was an alien land. \n\nMORA: I see. \n\nHERNANDEZ: It was an alien land, you know, because, first of all, I didn't have much experience with white people growing up, (laughter) except people telling me what to do, you know, teachers and stuff like that. The neighborhoods, you know–– at Jeff, it was the same thing. You know, I attached myself to Chicanos, to other Chicano students that were involved in the stuff. You know, I guess I always had kind of an anti-establishment thing. But I remember Jefferson had sororities and fraternities. And so you could get rejected, right? So I thought, I want to start a club where the only criteria that you have to be in part of our club is to get a rejection letter from one of the fraternities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=3000.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"(Laughter) And I said, We would be the biggest club on campus. And so I figured out, me and these other guys, figured out all the rules and we applied and we got it, and we got a club called The Forum with our own little shirts and The Forum–– kind of like the little misfits, you know. And we became the biggest club. And most of, I would say 90% of The Forum were Chicanos, by default. Not that we, I mean, if you got a rejection letter from any of the fraternities, you were automatically in, so it's not like we chose people. You were chosen by your rejection. And so, but it just happened, it worked out that way. Looking back well now, I know. But it, so that became my group in high school. So I, like I said, I didn't have very much interaction. So it was kind of alien land. But I didn't feel like I needed to. I didn’t care. You know what I mean? It didn't bother me or anything like that. You know, I was, I was happy being here and doing what I was doing. \n\nMORA:  I'm glad you felt happy here. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Yeah, I was. \n\nABREU-TORRES: Just a follow-up very quickly. Were all the Ford grantees part of TACS as well? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  I would say almost all of them. You know, some people came and just decided they were going to get their education. But because of the group that was picked, they all were pretty much part of TACS. Now, there was a few that, you know, once they got here, decided, No, I need to focus in on my life and my education, my career, right? And that's fine. That's okay. I mean, there's a couple that didn't make it, you know. I think Smiley was one of them that didn't make it. Smiley Riojas, because he kind of just disappeared. There's a couple of them that just didn't make it academically. But for the most part, the group that was brought in was TACS because that's who we would have been anyway. You know what I mean? \n\nABREU-TORRES: Thank you. \n\nMORA:  Okay. Did you notice any change in your feelings or understanding regarding Trinity and academia from when you started your pursuit of higher education to when you finished? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  I was very glad that I came to Trinity. I think it was a really good education. And it was, you know, intellectually challenging, like I said. And it was fun. I enjoyed being a student here at Trinity. I really did. I went to, you know, I'm sure it wouldn’t have been as much fun as that if I had gone to SAC or maybe St. Mary's would have been fun, too. And it may not have been as much fun as that if I had gone to UT. You know, UT's just so big. \n\nMORA: And very white. \n\nHERNANDEZ: Very white. And I would think it would be a lot harder to change UT stuff than it would have been to change stuff here at Trinity.\n\nMORA:  I see. Thank you. Looking back on your time, what was it like for you to be a student at Trinity in the early 1970s?\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Well, it was like, I never dreamed that I would be here. You know, it's like I said, this was nowhere on my radar, right? I knew about Trinity. And, you know, you’re in San Antonio, you know about Trinity. We used to call it the Country Club on the Hill. The Country Club on the Hill. And that's how I knew it. You know, rich kids go there. Rich white kids go there. And, you know, they're going to be our oppressors soon. No, I'm just kidding. (Laughter) They're training our next generation of oppressors. No, it's not their fault. You know, it's not their fault that they get caught in that stuff. But, no, I liked it being here. \n\nBut, like I said, I don't think it was so much Trinity as it was TACS. If that makes sense. But the fact that Trinity allowed TACS to happen and gave us that kind of freedom that we’re able to make those changes on the student activity fee. On those elections, when we did elections. The fact that Trinity allowed that and didn't shut us down, I have to give Trinity credit for that. Because I think other places, like A\u0026M, you may have just got shut down. \n\nMORA: Yeah, for sure. \n\nHERNANDEZ: You know, they would have just pulled your charter or whatever and shut you down. But we were always an organization with budgets and influence. So, I give credit","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=3300.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to Trinity for that.\n\nMORA:  What do you think are some of the differences between the experience of the Latinx students at Trinity and a non-Latinx student? Alternatively, what differences, if any, did you notice between you and your white peers?\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Well, I think I think there was not that much of a difference with international students that were Latino and the white kids. Because they all came from the upper classes. So, I think, you know––or upper middle class at least, if not the upper classes, the upper middle class. So, I think, you know, they had a lot of lived experiences that were the same. But in terms of Chicanos, those of us that came from the lower middle class or the working classes, just the class differences would play itself out. You know, what your expectations of what you could be would play itself out. What kind of resources you're going to have coming out of college. Like what kind of connections. Who's going to know who? You know, you're probably better connected for jobs because your family or the friends of your family's friends are connected to places they can hire you. Orhire you in senior positions or management positions. So, I think that was the biggest difference. You know, just––They knew that they were going to land somewhere. And Trinity was just part of the landing. It was just like a platform. \n\nMORA: A buffer zone. \n\nHERNANDEZ: No, it's like a platform. Like a staging area for the eventual landing. But for the working, for Chicanos, it wasn't a state. We still had to fight for the next thing, right? Getting a job adequate to our academic training. Being seen in that way. Being seen as being competent in that way. So, I think the biggest difference is that the white kids and the international kids, they knew they were going to land somewhere. This was just a staging ground for the next landing. For us, we knew there was still another fight ahead, even after we graduated. If that makes sense. \n\nMORA: It does make sense. And I, even like in current day, as I'm a student, I can still see myself in your story and see myself like fighting for my place here. And fighting to let it be known that I belong here. And this is exactly why our project is a thing. And so, thank you for sharing.\n\nWould you consider Trinity an institution that supports its Latinx students then or now?\n\nHERNANDEZ:  I don't know about now. I have no idea now. I assume that they're doing this, it's supportive in some way, right? I don’t know what happened to Trinity after I left, right? I wasn't really engaged very much with anything. Or, you know, look back and call people, hey, what's going on? Trinity was just something I, you know, it was done and I moved on to other stuff, right? So, I can't speak to that. But like I said, we had to fight for stuff. But the fact that we had the space to fight, I'll give Trinity credit for that. Would it be nice to not have to fight? Yeah. But given the fact that we fought for everything that we've had, I guess I'm just grateful that we had the space to make that fight. I just assumed that we'd have to make a fight. So, it's just a question of when, how, and where. And whether or not you got the space to do it.\n\nMORA:  Yep. What advice would you give to a current Latinx student at Trinity? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Well, first of all, go in with the confianza of who you are and where you come from. We don't have to justify ourselves to white people. We don't have to show that we're as smart as them or as good as them. We don't have to compete. We just have to be us, and be the best of us. And that'll play out. I was never big on trying to get white people to like me or accept me. I just wanted them to respect me. And that comes––respect comes out of power. The power that you hold yourself on who you believe you are and how you hold yourself and what you're willing to take and not take. And the power you have in making their lives better or worse. So, maybe it's the way I was brought up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=3600.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, maybe it's the way I remember my grandmother used to say, es que los gringos no saben. They're that way. They're racist because they don't know any better. They don't know what it means to be human. Es que no saben. So, I kind of grew up feeling sorry for the racist. The white racist because they don't know what it is to be truly human. And maybe it's their upbringing. Maybe it's their greed. Maybe it's their self-interest or their sense of entitlement. All that is not good for them. You know what I mean? They lose as much as anybody else by being that way. \n\nMORA: I agree. \n\nHERNANDEZ: And so, that kind of was the attitude I always had when it came to white people. You know, you kind of, you don't let them, you don't let their stupidness affect your life or change your life courses. Your life opportunities. But you understand it's just stupidness. You know, they're not the devil incarnate. (Laughter)\n\nMORA:  Before I conclude the interview, is there anything y'all want to ask? Anything you want to know further?\n\nSCHNUR:  I have a couple of questions. I was wondering if you could describe the TACS house for us a little bit. If you can think back about the layout or––\n\nHERNANDEZ:  It was like a Sodom and Gomorrah house. (Laughter) No. You know, I was a good church kid. Like, I was like, Oh my God, what's going on in here? I was a good church kid. So, I was like, I get all scared. \n\nSCHNUR:  So, it was on Shook, you said?\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Yeah, it was a house. \n\nSCHNUR: Okay. Do you know if––\n\nHERNANDEZ: And, I remember it had a lot of sofas and some desks. It had a tiny little kitchen. Of course, nobody ever cooked anything there. And, I remember we could go there and just hang out. And, sometimes, I didn't go very much because they would smoke pot and stuff like that. I didn't do that. I was all scared. So, I didn't do too much. Unless we had a meeting and stuff. Or, you know, sometimes we'd have parties there or somebody's birthday, I don't know. But, yeah. Sometimes I'd go and I'd say, “This is wrong. I need to leave”.\n\nSCHNUR:  So, was this funded by the university or were students pulling money together?\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Oh, no. It wasn't students pulling money. It was part of the grant, I think. \n\nSCHNUR: It was part of the grant—\n\nHERNANDEZ: I'm pretty sure it was. Or, maybe they gave us a house that maybe was formerly a fraternity or sorority house that wasn't being used anymore. \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. \n\nHERNANDEZ: But, I remember we had our own place. Sylvia Hernandez used to hang out there a lot. So, she may know more about it. She'd be a good one to interview, too. Sylvia Hernandez. \n\nSCHNUR: I remember part of the Ford Foundation grant— there was about a two-year period where they, what they called a “barrio house,” there was a smaller house apparently on the Westside of San Antonio, which was used as like a tutoring center—\n\nHERNANDEZ: I don’t remember that. \n\nSCHNUR: Okay. It didn't, it maybe only lasted a year or two with the Ford Foundation money. \n\nHERNANDEZ: Was it during my class or was it another class? \n\nSCHNUR:  It started in 1971. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Okay. Well, maybe that's it ––Maybe––No, it wasn’t on the Westside because it was close to Trinity. Yeah. I remember it was close to Trinity. Okay. I don't know if it was on Shook, but I remember it wasn't Westside. \n\nSCHNUR: Right. \n\nHERNANDEZ: I would remember that. It was around here somewhere. \n\nSCHNUR: Okay. \n\nHERNANDEZ: But, I don't remember. I never participated, so I don't know. Maybe that's when the people that were being hired as tutors were out there. \n\nSCHNUR:  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you remember any conversations with Jorge Anchondo and, like, other, initial founders and talks about how they–– because I know that they wrote the Ford grant. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Right. \n\nSCHNUR:  And, of course, yeah, Trinity took that on as, like, Hey, we got this cool grant. Yeah. But it was the students doing the work. Do you remember any conversations about how that, how the Ford Foundation grant came to be? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  No. \n\nSCHNUR:  Okay. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  No, I don't think I ever, I didn't even ask, you know. We were just ––I think at the time, the big thing was for us not to flunk out. \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. \n\nHERNANDEZ: And to do well. You know, I made the honor roll the first year I was here, or the second year I was here. I don't remember. But I think for a lot of us was to show that we were academically competent. Okay. Well, because that would have been the thing that would have killed us, right, if we started flunking out. And it would have killed the program. Because, okay, you brought all these kids in that we wouldn't have taken anyway because of their grades. See,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=3900.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we were right for having that criteria. Rather than, no, giving these kids a chance, they'll perform. They'll live up to that, you know, that time. \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. \n\nHERNANDEZ: And I would say just about everybody did. I mean, nobody came in on an academic scholarship. I mean, we were all, we would not have met the criteria for an academic scholarship at Trinity. Or else we would have already had one, right? So we wouldn't have met that criteria. So, no, I do know, you know, that they were very, it was a unique historical situation that you had people like Miguel Berry; doctor, at that time he was a professor, but Raul Solis; Jorge Anchondo, who was this great mind and organizer and knew how to navigate the system. He knew how to navigate the system. \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. \n\nHERNANDEZ: And it just was this confluence of these great minds and that put their minds and their hands and their heart to work on making this happen. And had that vision. So I had never seen this, that type of stuff anywhere else. But I think it was just that perfect storm of these, and all these guys became somebody. You know what I mean? They were all big names. And they just happened to be here and happened to have that focus. And made it happen. And then some of us just were the beneficiaries. I was a beneficiary of the work that they did. I really was. And so we just tried to carry on that work. And make true the promise that if you have people like activists here, that we would not only succeed academically, that we would improve the life of not just students, but the Chicano community. That was the goal. \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. Did you have any interaction with George Chavez, who was a student at the time, and who the Memorial Foundation, the Memorial Fund was established? \n\nHERNANDEZ: I don't remember having too much interaction with him. Was he a graduate student? \n\nSCHNUR: He was a graduate student and one of the first of the TACS officers, but he died in a car accident. \n\nHERNANDEZ: Oh, I don't remember George Chavez. \n\nSCHNUR: And this student was a little before your time, but he was part of MAYO and I was wondering if you had any interaction with Norman Guerro?\n\nHERNANDEZ: Yes. I remember him from the, you know, from the Southwest Voter days and all that stuff. But I didn't know him as Trinity. \n\nSCHNUR: As a Trinity student––\n\nHERNANDEZ: Yeah. See, I knew about Miguel Berry before, but I didn't know him as a Trinity student either. I knew Carlos Guerra, because Carlos Guerra had been in La Raza Unida, and campaign manager and all that stuff for Mario Compean. But I didn't even know he was a graduate student here at Trinity until I got here. \n\nSCHNUR: I didn't know that either. My grandfather was good friends with him. \n\nHERNANDEZ: Oh, really? \n\nSCHNUR: Yeah. I had a question kind of about the sort of Protestant religious aspect in relation to the Chicano movement. I don't have a good way to word this, but I guess how do you think having that religious background might have differentiated you and other Protestant Chicanos versus Catholic Chicanos? \n\nHERNANDEZ: Well, if you look at the history of the Farm Workers Movement, some of the first religious leaders to take an active role were not priests, they were Protestant pastors. I'm not sure why that was the case, but that's just historical fact. And I think, you know, the fact that the Presbyterians for example, had had a long history of trying to evangelize Hispanics. At one time, the Protestants broke up the Hispanic population in the United States and Latin America into different mission areas. And they said, Okay, the Presbyterians are going to have West Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado. The Methodists are going to have South Texas, Mexico. The Baptists are going to have––they actually broke up almost like colonialists, right? And said, this is going to be and so that's how that, and so there was a strong––\n\n Oh, I remember his name. Garcia. Francisco Garcia. He was a Presbyterian. I don't know if he was a pastor, but strong Presbyterian that had grown up in the Presbyterian church as Hispanic. And so I think he even wrote a book about Presbyterians and Hispanics. \n\nSCHNUR: He was the professor here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=4200.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"HERNANDEZ: I think so. I think his name was Francisco Garcia. I think that was him. I see him. I think Francisco for sure. I don't know if it was Garcia, but he actually wrote a book about, if you can find the book on Presbyterians and Hispanic ministries, he wrote that history. So, and the Methodists, the Southern Episcopal Church was the slave church and also had a big mission to the Mexicans, right? And to the Mexican American population, that's how we became Methodists, right? Because they were targeting Mexican Americans. And we actually had our own conference, the Conferencia Rio Grande, which was separate from the Anglo conferences. We had our own separate churches with our own district superintendents and all that stuff. We don't anymore, but at that time, when I grew up, we did. So I think that too, that independence from the Anglo church meant that we had more freedom to act. And I think the fact that Methodism and Presbyterianism took on a progressive kind of change in the 60s and 70s, where they became very progressive about social justice and all that, also meant that a lot of that leadership that came into the clergy, became ordained clergy, would have come with that orientation. But I know the Presbyterian church, and maybe that's why, yeah, I also thought, why did Trinity always have this kind of historical, why were there always Hispanics here at Trinity? And the only thing I can figure is the mission calling of the Presbyterian church. That that was still part of their mindset, right? Because my wife's mom, my ex-mother-in-law, she graduated from Trinity in 1954. 1954. I thought, how did she get to Trinity? You know, she grew up at the courts on the Westside. And then her younger brother ended up at Trinity, and her sister ended up at Trinity. They all were Trinity graduates in the 50s. I said, What the hell? You know, in the 50s, right? Well, Mexicans didn't even go to college, much less Trinity. They didn't go to any college. Not even SAC or––And so I guess that must have been it. The missionary call in that we're going to, you know, evangelize the Mexicans, and we've got to train the leadership, Presbyterian Mexican leadership at university. Maybe, I don't know. I know that was a big part of the St. Mary's on the Catholic side, that they were going to––St. Mary's was set up for the Mexicans, and the Incarnate Word was set up for the Mexicans, it ended up being something else, but that was the original setup. It was for the Mexicans. And the working-class population. That was the original goal. And then it became something else. \n\nSCHNUR:  Do you think, like, the TACS story of Trinity is kind of left out in the broader narrative? \n\nHERNANDEZ:  You know, I don't know. TACS started in 1970, I think. So it was only two years old when I got there. So it must have been Jorge and those guys. Chavez and those guys that started. So it was pretty young. And I don't know. Like I said, after I left Trinity, Trinity was my rear-view mirror. I didn't think about it. I didn't check in on anybody. You know what I mean? I don't know how long they lasted after that.\n\nSCHNUR:   1978.\n\nHERNANDEZ:   Not very long then. That's not very long. Because in ‘78, the movement was still high gear. Did they become something else? \n\nSCHNUR:  They changed their name to the Trinity Association of Hispanic Students. And that came in 1979. And then it lasted three more years until 1982.\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Oh, that's it? \n\nSCHNUR:  Yeah.\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Well, shoot. MEChA [Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán; \"Chicano Student Movement of Aztlán] has lasted longer at the Lake [Our Lady of the Lake University].\n\nSCHNUR:  Well, you get MEChA. Comes in, in 19––\n\nHERNANDEZ: Oh, MEChA was here? \n\nMORA:  Yes, we did have a MEChA chapter.\n\nHERNANDEZ: When? \n\nSCHNUR: 1990s?\n\nHERNANDEZ: Okay. And then? \n\nSCHNUR: Then was Latino Exchange––\n\nMORA: Yeah, Latino Exchange. \n\nHERNANDEZ: Okay. \n\nMORA: They're around the same time because [Dr. Arturo] Madrid was working with both––\n\nHERNANDEZ: Oh, okay. So they had a faculty, not sponsor, but, motivator. Motivator. Inspirational. Yeah, somebody that could help organize. Okay. So MEChA was here, huh? TACS always thought itself superior to MEChA. We were like the rich","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=4500.0,4800.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Chicano organization. Rich kids because we had full scholarships. We had a Ford Foundation grant. You know what I mean? Yeah. We had offices. We had a house. MEChA could barely get together in the cafeteria. (Laughter) So we felt ourselves superior to MEChA. Actually, MEChA did a lot of good. But, yeah. MEChA at The Lake was really good for a number of years. They did some good work in the community, too. \n\nSCHNUR:  Oh, yeah. That was one of the questions I wanted to ask is that you mentioned that TACS did stuff in the community as well as on campus. And I don't think that we have a lot of record of that. I mean, we have record of events on campus, but I was hoping you could share––\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Well, I know that TACS was really involved, that members of the TACS were really involved in both the lettuce and grapes boycotts, you know? \n\nSCHNUR: Okay. \n\nHERNANDEZ: And, like I said, you know, picket lines and trying to get people to not do––We did it here at Trinity, but we were also trying to get other people to do it. And we worked with the MEChAistas. They were trying to get, you know, they got St. Mary's to do it and all that stuff. And so we worked with the other groups, too. And, you know, when there was a protest parade or stuff, we were there as TACS, right? Along with the MEChAistas. There were some protests around Fiesta, you know, that TACS got involved in. Not so much with the Brown Berets because they were already starting to decline. I mean, they, you know, they were already on the downside. But the MEChAistas, we did a lot of work, particularly with the MEChAistas at SAC, too, because  there was close to Jorge Joe Alderete who became a city councilman, his daughter just won the city council race in District 6 is here. Yeah. I don't remember the details. It's all a blur.\n\nSCHNUR:  Just checking. (Laughs)\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Yeah. So it didn't have much of a lifespan after we left, huh? Because I left in ‘75. And it seemed strong when I left. \n\nSCHNUR: It was strong, yeah, your whole time here, for sure. \n\nHERNANDEZ: And then when I left it, you know, it didn't look like it was going to let up. I don't know what happened. That would be interesting, what happened. \n\nABREU-TORRES: The Ford continued after that?\n\nHERNANDEZ: No. It was just for four years.\n\nSCHNUR:  Yeah, his cohort graduated. Yeah.\n\nHERNANDEZ: But you'd think we would have left something behind. That's sad that we didn't leave something behind. Maybe we were just too focused on each other.\n\nSCHNUR:  Apparently, the George Chavez scholarship is still in existence.\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Oh, really?\n\nSCHNUR:  Yeah. We’re trying to learn where, how that is still being funded—\n\nHERNANDEZ: Learn where the money's coming from? \n\nSCHNUR:  Yeah. Where is the money coming from? \n\nHERNANDEZ: That's interesting. Yeah. I never knew about the George Chavez scholarship, by the way. Is it a big one?\n\nSCHNUR:  I don't think it's that big, but with the TACS flyers and programs for events, it's always, like, donations are for the memorial scholarship.  This entry fee is for the memorial scholarship.\n\nHERNANDEZ:  I don't remember that. I have no recollection of that at all. I guess I wasn't interested in donating. I don't know. I just don't have any recollection of that. I'm sure it was there. I used to, I just didn't want to look for it because it's too hot, but I had a, I used to have a bunch of TACS posters that I kept, like, for the different events that we did, and I don't know if I can still find them. Someday, when I have to clean out stuff, if I find them, I'll give you guys a call, but it's just too damn hot for a poster. To go in there and try to find it. Anyway, I didn't know what y'all had. I thought y'all might have archival stuff. \n\nSCHNUR:  We have, like, two folders, very thin, of TACS information, so anything that, any sort of memorabilia or ephemera that you have to provide would be really helpful.\n\nHERNANDEZ:  I remember, yeah, I had a, it was a, some type of event that we were promoting, but it had Zapata and it had TACS, Trinity Association of Chicanos. It was big. It was huge, and that's why I kept it. I just need to find it. It's all folded up somewhere. And then I do remember having some minutes of meetings. I don't know how I got them, but maybe I was supposed to do something with them, and I just ended up in a box. I just, I remember, I said, Oh, man, what is this? And I was like, Oh, yeah, I remember that. But I thought, Why would I have these? Why would I have them? You know, but maybe I was, maybe I was supposed to do something with them, and I never did. I don't know. I just, I don't remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=4800.0,5100.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'll see what I can find. \n\nMORA:  Thank you so much. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Did y'all find the Trinitonian article about, there's one, well, we were on the front page of the Trinitonian, well I was. Did you find that one? And it talked about a bunch of issues. \n\nSCHNUR:  A bunch of issues, yeah. Yeah.\n\nHERNANDEZ:   Yeah. Okay, so. I forgot what it said, but it was kind of had a weird headline, like. \n\nSCHNUR:  I can send it to you, too.\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Okay.\n\nSCHNUR:  Yeah, you know it’s the white reporters talking about the, you know, writing about these issues from you all, it [Trinitonian articles] gets even crazier in the 80s, but––\n\nHERNANDEZ:  Yeah, I remember the headline was kind of weird, but I didn't care, because it gave us, you know, play, and showed that we're players, and I didn't care about the headline, I just cared about the picture. That's all I wanted. If we could make the, you know, front page of the Trinitonian show that we were players. \n\nSCHNUR: Yep. \n\nHERNANDEZ: That's what I wanted. People to walk away with. They won't remember anything else. They'll remember you're a player. \n\nMORA: Any other questions? Okay. Mr. Andy Hernandez, thank you so much for your time. Is there anything else you would like to share that we did not cover today? \n\nHERNANDEZ: No. When were your parents born? \n\nMORA:  My mom was born in 1971. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  That’s what I thought, when I told a friend of mine, “Hey, they're going to do this thing, oral history thing, archive thing, about my time at Trinity.” I said, “I bet you the students who are going to be doing the interview, not only weren't they born, I bet you their parents were not born yet, or barely born.” And I was right. (Laughter) They said, “No way, dude. No way.” I said, “I bet you their parents were not born yet, or like they were one year old.\" And that's why I asked. (Laughter) Think about that. I was here when your mom or dad were one year old, or just been born. That’s crazy.\n\nMORA:  Yeah, I was talking to Abra about like just that, literally yesterday before the interview. But if there isn't anything else you'd like to share. \n\nHERNANDEZ:  Oh, no. \n\nMORA: This is the end of the interview. Thank you so much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=5100.0,5243.0"},{"id":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870/transcript/72264/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://trinityuniversity.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2313/collection_resources/98834/file/222870#t=5243.0,5243.66933"}]}]}]}